SFR, Inc. Forum Index SFR, Inc.
Forums that relate to SFR products
 
 Watched TopicsWatched Topics   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

New Terrains
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SFR, Inc. Forum Index -> Announcements
View previous topic :: View next topic  

How bad do you want new terrains?
I'd rather wait until we can make new molds.
63%
 63%  [ 14 ]
I want them now! I don't care about that other stuff
36%
 36%  [ 8 ]
Users Voted : 0
Total Votes : 22
This poll has expired.

Author Message
KilljoyKing
common



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

mexico.gif
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:42 am GMT    Post subject: Quote: Quoting Reply with quote

willpell wrote:
Never use the crappy made-up name when the real meaningful mythical terminology is available. "Wiltland" and "Stormland" and such, to say nothing of the weaker submissions, sound like something made up to fit the role, exactly as they are. The name "Feyland" has some history attached, so it's the best available choice.

You are entirely missing the point, which is strange considering that you quoted me making that very point. Never said to just make up some garbage name; I just said that a historic name like Feyland is a poor decision when all history suggests that it would not be a Fire/Water. In order for attached history to make it "the best" choice, it would have to be history that actually indicated Fire and Water.
Otherwise, one should assume that the history would make it anything but the best.

I simply stated that rather than assume and alter already-stated facts (Feylands were somehow opened up again after being hidden, elder members of the Fey race had the Fire aspect or at least their homeland did despite the progenitors of the Scalders lacking said element tho' they are the reason people think the Feylands should be Fire in the first place, etc.), a new region -- in the same vein as the Shadowlands or the Feylands -- could be introduced in an official SFR expansion set for little more purpose than to fill this terrain color combination without the rewriting and retconning a fiery Feyland would do.
Seeing as how the all-too-creative names of Feyland and Shadowlands were on-the-spotted (as opposed to something like Esfah), calling unoriginality on another X-land name hardly seems fair when Feyland, too, is a hodgepodge of a place and what occupies said place.

I mean, really, "real meaningful mythical terminology"? Overlooking the fact that you are discussing mythology in the land of two-headed Rocs, single-headed Rakshasas, and Beholders, try looking for the mythical Feyland. No, put away your river-worn rocks; I mean look for mentions of it by that title. You won't uncover much except for some mentions in games and Tina Fey fan sites. I've always heard it called Annwn or the Otherworld. And to me, a name like "Feyland" has about as much meaningfulness as the Navajo hero Monster-Slayer.
Just words. Just stuck together.

Stormland and Wiltland, yes, are horrible names, and I would hope that something at least on par with Shadowlands could be dreamt up in this make-a-different-place-up scenario. Again, I'm not saying to go that route. I'm just saying that if one is going to make up so much about Feyland contradictory to what is given in its pamphlet-page blurb, it would be just as easy for another, more fitting land to make its own, new history to be rolled out in some future expansion. It would certainly be easier than trying to explain why the Feylands spontaneously combusted.
Do I think that should be done? No. I'm just trying to show how a bad idea is still intellectually better than using Feylands due to the smaller number of plotholes and being more logical than saying the peaceful and frail race lived surrounded by flames or geysers... in a forest.

piMaster wrote:
A race and their home terrain do not have to consist of the exact same elemental makeup.

Never said they did. Really, go back and look. All I said is the only element ya got from the Fey explicitly stated is water. Everyone else is assuming the Feylands should be Fire/Water because of the Scalder make-up, not because of anything inherently boiling about secret forests. However, since Scalders never existed within the secret forests, this is a moot point.
So if everyone else is using racial makeup as a basis for what elements the Feylands may contain, it is not too great a stretch to extrapolate from the racial makeup of the Feys that actually did live there. However, since only one element is ever indicated as having any relation whatsoever to the Fey, the choice as to which aspects would make up the Feylands is limited to one. Can't have a single element terrain (not yet, anyway, but even if there were, much better choices exist for Water than the Feylands), thus effectively eliminating it as a choice for any terrain. Unless, of course, that second extrapolated element is Earth to make the very tree-y combination of Gold/Green. With only the five current elements and the information given, anything beyond Water (and Earth) would require one to...
piMaster wrote:
What did I make up?

Feylands having fire. The Feylands and the Fey having or doing much more than just disappearing. With each of those statements, something is created from nothing.
It was meant as more of a universal "you" than targeted at you in particular, but if one is just going to say there were fire fey or "And there was fire in their forests, for some reason. Forests like that stuff, right?" then one is assuming facts presented no where, thus making stuff up.


Besides, Forests aren't a major terrain feature; they are a minor one. Thus, the Feylands (which are a geographical region, not a feature, and really should not be able to spring up all over Esfah anyway [and no one better say "magic portals", 'cause if you do... uh, I'll write even more~! No, wait, missile fire! What are they gonna do? Open up sky portals so that enemy projectiles can hit them?]) could simply be any of the available terrain types -- and most likely multiple, if these lands are of any substantial size -- with trees, which apparently do not alter the aspects of a terrain in any profound fashion.


Now, y'see, if you wanted to make a good argument for the fiery Feylands, one would need to go no further than the progenitor Scalders themselves -- the Steam Dancers. Steam isn't just water, after all; it is hot water.
However, I would easily counter by saying that they were beings of misty vapor, as clearly described in the manuals. Obviously, they possessed no more fire than a dewy morn if Death had to add the stuff to them. Check and mate, me!


piMaster wrote:
At this point, all this is is brainstorming.

Not against brainstorming. Brainstorming good, but not all things are brainstormed are good. If nothing was weeded out, then Badlands would, too, be considered a viable candidate for Red/Green. Or the Jungle with its Jungle Forest minor terrain.
_________________
Dragon Diceâ„¢ Musing and Such @ Reality's End
Back to top
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
willpell
common



Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 180

usa.gif
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:43 am GMT    Post subject: Re: Quote: Quoting Reply with quote

KilljoyKing wrote:
single-headed Rakshasas


Uh, are they usually otherwise? I know that the term dates back to Indian myth and applied to more than just "tiger-headed illusionsists" as D&D made them (remember, all the original M&A monsters were pretty much straight out of a D&D Monster Manual, since it was the same company), but I don't recall the details.

Quote:
Do I think that should be done? No. I'm just trying to show how a bad idea is still intellectually better than using Feylands due to the smaller number of plotholes and being more logical than saying the peaceful and frail race lived surrounded by flames or geysers... in a forest.


Ah, but for Feyland to be connected to elemental Fire, it doesn't have to literally be on flame; one would imagine the Highlands, while they may experience some volcanic activity, are basically geologically stable and non-immolated, or else the Dwarves couldn't live there. (Lava Elves have been explicitly stated as being fireproof; Dwarves have not.)

Fire is classically associated with Chaos, and faeries are NOTHING if not chaotic. That's more than enough to say that Feyland should be a Fire terrain. Say the terrain randomizes itself when you're not looking at it; this is classic faerie lore, and would fit with the terrain being "pulsing with the ever-changing essence of Fire".

Quote:
Unless, of course, that second extrapolated element is Earth to make the very tree-y combination of Gold/Green.


Which, of course, is a Swampland....

Quote:
piMaster wrote:
What did I make up?

Feylands having fire


That was me, actually, and with the above logic.

Quote:
Besides, Forests aren't a major terrain feature; they are a minor one.


I'm 95% certain that the minor terrain is called Woods, which suggests a small grove in the middle of nowhere, rather than an endless expanse of greenery. While I'll admit that "a woods in the forest" sounds silly, there's nothing wrong with saying that there are woods, villages, bridges and knolls in Feyland, the place of constantly shifting landscapes and sizzling, intoxicating mystical energies (think "firewater" - it's classic for exposure to Faerie to have an inebriating effect on unwary humans).

Both fire and water are the colors of transformation, and the faeries pretty much transform everything they touch; add to that the fact that the feyland would never have existed if not for the fact that the scalders would eventually get made (yes this is a little meta but it's still true), and I don't think it's a stretch to say that the essence of fire could have been lying dormant in them all along.

Quote:
[and no one better say "magic portals", 'cause if you do... uh, I'll write even more~!


Magic portals! But that would be a new 8th Face icon, not an explanation for the manifestation of new terrains. That part is simple enough...when I first dreamed up the idea of new Desert and Jungle terrains, I figured we'd just say they were an unexplored region of Esfah beyond the haunts of civilized folk, which is why they postdate the arrival of all twelve races. Nobody lives there, nobody has racial specializations toward them, but they were just "beyond the mountains" or "further down the coast" all along, and the Esfahvians were just too busy fighting to notice. One day, an expedition led by the Selumari™ commander Ko-Lam-Bos finds this new region of Deserts and Jungles far from the haunts of "civilized" elves and dwarves. The natives appear harmless enough...at first.

Quote:
Not against brainstorming. Brainstorming good, but not all things are brainstormed are good. If nothing was weeded out, then Badlands would, too, be considered a viable candidate for Red/Green. Or the Jungle with its Jungle Forest minor terrain.


Badlands would be a terrible name for Red/Green; there's virtually no moisture in the South Dakota region to which this name applies. They are in fact formed by wind erosion, and boiled by the fires of the sun, which makes them a perfect Fire/Air terrain...but Badlands means a specific place, so a more generic name such as, oh let's see, Wasteland is perfect. However, Fire and Water together should produce a fertile, if unstable, region, teeming with brief lives and constantly changing. Such as...the Feylands!

Zugzwang, mein freund! Mr. Green
_________________
Designer of Hybrid Dragon Breaths, the Enchant Element spell, new colored Dragonkin Breaths, and various homebrew races and dragons. If you want to know where to find them...good luck, I don't remember anymore.
Back to top
 View user's profile Send private message
piMaster
rare
Stockholder



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3235
Location: Rockford, IL

usa.gif
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:41 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking over some of the material from the TSR Tournament Pack and came across an interesting paragraph from one of the flyers:

"Dragon Diceâ„¢ kicker packs pack more power into an already super-charged game! Kicker Pack 1: Monsters & Amazons adds a new race represented by dice with special abilities in a new color and a new dice type for the monsters. Kicker Pack, Set 2: Firewalkers features all-new dice exclusively, and brings another new race, more new abilities, and new terrain. Kicker Pack, Set 3: Undead also features all-new dice exclusively, adding more unique monsters."

Notice that the Firewalker kicker packs are said to include new terrain. So, someone, sometime, thought that the two missing fire-mix terrains would be released with the first kicker pack to feature a fire-mix race. Also obviously, they didn't do that. But, it is an interesting historical footnote.
Back to top
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
willpell
common



Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 180

usa.gif
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:07 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

When SFR gets around to making these terrains (which I will assume for now will be called Wasteland and Feyland, though I'm aware there's still some negotiating being done), I hope they will take special precautions to try and make them distinct-looking. I know it's hard to control this process, but in general, I've seen improvements in some areas and backslides in others, so I hope the technical folks are working on figuring out how it happens and will apply extra finesse to the terrains.

I mention this due to the issue I've described elsewhere of Firewalkers and Scalders looking alike; red plus either of the other primary colors tends to mostly just look like dark red, and it'd be a shame if these new terrains were impossible to tell apart. From any distance, the existing four terrain types are easily told apart, particularly the newly-printed ones with a darker blue that makes the Flatlands look less like Green and more like Blue plus Gold. While the Coastlands mostly just look Blue, but that's okay since they don't have much competition.

Since Coastlands, new ones in particular, look like a dark blue that's only slightly greenish, while Swamplands are an extremely light yellow-green, there's more "room" for a deep green color than there is for a deep blue. Therefore, I recommend that an attempt be made to have the Feyland look like "reddish green" and the Wasteland a "bluish red". That way, if Feyland comes out looking just green and Wasteland looks just red, they still won't compete much with the existing mix of orange, chartreuse, kinda-greenish-blue, and blue-pretty-evenly-mixed-with-gold.

If nothing else, I might almost try making them of 60/40% or 55/45% their colors in order to favor the desired bias. If they're made even, they might come out okay as purply-burgundy and browny-maroon, but they also might look a bit too much like the existing blue terrains for easy distinction.
_________________
Designer of Hybrid Dragon Breaths, the Enchant Element spell, new colored Dragonkin Breaths, and various homebrew races and dragons. If you want to know where to find them...good luck, I don't remember anymore.
Back to top
 View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SFR, Inc. Forum Index -> Announcements All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Page 6 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group