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Counter magic with good old arrow

 
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TheLazyhase
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Joined: 16 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:54 pm GMT    Post subject: Counter magic with good old arrow Reply with quote

Hello.

A random idea of alternate rule I had while I commuted would be, for magic action, to allow the opposing army, if any, to do a counter-missile. It's like the counter-melee in melee.

Lore-wise, it can be rationalized as magician having to expose themselves to do their rituals. Given the few description in the rulebook and the fact that ranged can attack an adjacent terrain, it don't seem completely stupid. Also, it reinforce the anti-magic thematic of the frostwing, since in addition to their racial they are good at missile.

Gameplay-wise, it will transform archer as mage killer in addition to their current power, which in a game where mage are considered a little bit powerful and missile a little bit weak does not seem too much of a stretch. Also, heavy infantry with some missile, like the elven ones, will be able to use their missile faces a bit more easily, since in effect it would be a passive effect against magic.

Since Dragonkin exist, it mean that they will be a strategic choice between taking additional defenser for your mage and having your mage casting immediatly useful spell, or wasting one or more turn to have enough dragonkin to soak counter volley.

The three races which gain the most from the change are Frostwing, because they are good at archery, Amazon, for the same reason, and Scalder, because they have autosave against missile and consequently will have mage better protected against retaliation. None of the three seem particulary overpowered at the moment. Also, the value of Volley would go up, which I like since it's not particulary desireable at the moment.

On the other end of the stick, mages with weak or no save will be the most weakened. Firewalker are the most impacted, since none of their mage have any save or way to get some. They can still summon dragonkin to help soak damage, or use spell like Dust devil or Dancing light, and their mage are very good, but the race as a whole isn't noticeably strong. Other races may also be hit harder than average ; for example, undead, while having resilient mages, do really need their magic.

A refinement of the idea would be to forbad ID icon from counting in this counter-missile, to force people to use actual archer for that. I don't know if it's necessary, while it's a bit strange.

I think the idea is a bit too game-changing and seem to shift power level too much to propose for 3.0 rules, but it may create fun games.

What do you think ? Do you think it's simple enough ? What would you fear it would cause ?
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piMaster
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Joined: 16 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:45 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't say I'm in favor of this idea. Easy counter-measure: put an open grave down and use the save roll as a free chance for more cantrips.

And what about multiplayer games where you could have two or more opposing armies? Does everyone get a shot at you or ???
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TheLazyhase
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Joined: 16 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:13 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

piMaster wrote:
I can't say I'm in favor of this idea. Easy counter-measure: put an open grave down and use the save roll as a free chance for more cantrips.


Well, on average you need 27 points of mage to recoup the cost of the open grave. With 18 points, all of 3-health mage with a 4 face cantrip, the trick will cost you 2 points, or the full 6 if your opponent decide simply not to fire. This is not too problematic for me ; the goal is not to make sure that mage will never be able to cast a spell ever.

The slightly more problematic thing would be casting open grave, hoping to have as much unit as possible killed, and redeploying them to another terrain. It seem too unreliable to work however.

Also it show that Open Grave does not scale and is more powerful at 60hp game than at 36hp game. Not unlike Frost Breath or Dancing light for that matter.

piMaster wrote:
And what about multiplayer games where you could have two or more opposing armies? Does everyone get a shot at you or ???


Good point, and I didn't think about it.

Even on a 4-player I am not sure that your mage will often see two army big enough to make real damage to it at the same time, and if it's the case maybe you can just flee to somewhere else.

But ignoring balance problem does not solve another issue, which is that it will take too much time, since unlike maneuver it must be sequential. I don't have any definitive and good solution to avoid that for now.

My best solution would be that the biggest army only can retaliate, with the current player deciding in case of tie, which is better but not perfect since assessing the bigger army can be a chore too.

All thoses solutions does not solve that if you feel that would not be fun, then it's not fun :p
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