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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:30 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's in the rules for "Dragon Taming". Any dragon can be summoned to any terrain, including to the terrain where it is currently. Normally you would not do that, but it breaks the "taming" of a DL or DM.
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Deeghter
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:45 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Chuck! I'm presently in a game and needed to know that quickly. Embarassed
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:58 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the new wording I proposing for blue dragon breath:
Quote:
Blue Dragon Breath (Lightning): Five health-worth of units in the target army must save individually or be killed. Until the beginning of the target army’s next turn, the only rolls the target army can make are save and save avoidance rolls. All other rolls are either not allowed, or if a combination avoidance roll that includes saves, becomes simply and only a save avoidance roll.


Let me know if that clears up the problems.
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piMaster
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:29 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds pretty good to me, Chuck. Thanks!

-Brad
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ddicerc
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:13 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like that covers it. Under that rule, when a combination roll is converted to a save or save avoidance roll, anything that affects those specific rolls would then be in force, right?
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Deeghter
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:32 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, great! That clears the situation perfectly well in the rules! Thanks, Chuck!


My 400th post! (Just to mention it! Very Happy )
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:43 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDiceRC wrote:
Looks like that covers it. Under that rule, when a combination roll is converted to a save or save avoidance roll, anything that affects those specific rolls would then be in force, right?

I'm assuming you mean something that would affect a save roll is in force. If so, then yes it would affect the roll normally. If you had to roll against a dragon attack, then all penalties such as Ash Storm, Palsy and the like would have to come from saves or IDs. Maneuvers counting as saves would still work normally. The blue dragon breath only affects the type of roll you can make, it does not affect your results.
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Deeghter
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:46 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

During our latest games we were thinking and discussing about dragon rules.
If you leave the terrain where one or more dragons had been summoned to before, they keep sitting there until judgement day unless they're summoned away by someone.
Wouldn't it make sense to roll the dragon once in every complete players round (i.e. every player had his turn) even if there's no army located at that terrain?
The wings icon might lead the dragon to deciding to fly away being bored about having no tasty "Deeghters" (Goblins, just as an example and just for keeping this "joke" running) to chew on.
If a dragon might decide to just fly away even when "attacking" an army at the same terrain, then it might be deciding the same when left alone!?

Just a thought..... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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koslowj
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:40 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Die(ter) wrote:
If a dragon might decide to just fly away even when "attacking" an army at the same terrain, then it might be deciding the same when left alone!?
Or you can look at it this way: when no one is there the dragon is sleeping off all those tasty treats he had before and doesn't have any incentive to leave. Besides, I like the idea of tying up a terrain with a dragon or two and forcing some action at the other terrains.
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Deeghter
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:19 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

koslowj wrote:
Besides, I like the idea of tying up a terrain with a dragon or two and forcing some action at the other terrains.


Yep, that indeed is a point, you're right. And I also like that fearful face of the player who decides to finally get his butt up and face the dragons at that lonely terrain. Mr. Green
It was just a thought though........ Rolling Eyes
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ldorn
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:27 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casting dragons at empty terrains has long been a valid terrain denial tactic. If your opponent retreats an army leaving a terrain empty, send a dragon their to deny it to him. Of course that means if you go to that terrain you need to get rid of your own dragon.
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Deeghter
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:49 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you better don't do that in a 24hp-two-player-game! Mr. Green
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Deeghter
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:37 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question: The rules say :
After the acting army's Initial Effects phase has been completed, if any dragons are present, then play
proceeds to the Dragon Attack phase. This phase is not optional. If no dragons are present, go to the next
phase of the turn sequence (First March). (page 11)

and:
Dragon Attack Phase
Dragons are sent to a terrain via magic. A dragon attack happens after any spells with a duration of ”until
the beginning of your turn” expire and any Initial Effects are resolved, but before the acting army declares
their First March.(page 32)

and in the Glossary:
Acting Army – The army that initiated the current action. Note well that this will not always be
the marching army (e.g. melee counter-attack).


I think I've found a contradiction in the wording of the rules in this case??

A dragon attack occurs at the beginning of a player's turn, after initial effects are resolved and before the player does anything else (1st march etc.). But in the first paragraph above "acting army" is mentioned! An army becomes an acting army when the player chooses (or is forced) to make an action with it, right? (see above)
An action is trying to generate magic, missile or melee results but a combination roll during a dragon attack is not considered an action.
This leads to the conclusion that I might choose another army first, make my first march, use magic (for example) to assist the army facing the dragon and then, at the beginning of march 2, declare the dragon-facing army to become my acting army and the dragons are rolled for the dragon attack! Rolling Eyes
But on the other hand, turn sequence clearly says that dragons attack first, then you continue with march 1!! Exclamation

I think "acting army" should be replaced by "acting player" in the first 2 paragraphs above, to make clear that the Dragon's attack occurs before the acting player can do anything else!!

Maybe I'm too picky or maybe it's a language matter, but in sticky game situations a player might search for any way to help himself (especially if not experienced with the game, yet) and the above mentioned contradiction (as I understand it) might lead to discussions during the game!?
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:17 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

However, you left out:
Quote:
Dragon Attack – The phase where a dragon conducts an attack on the acting army and the army’s
corresponding save/melee/missile combination roll. A dragon attack is not a march or an action.
However you also need to look under Player:
Quote:
Player – Person participating in a Dragon Diceâ„¢ game.
    Acting Player – The owner of the acting army. Note well that this will not always be the marching player (e.g., in melee counter-attack situations).
    Marching Player – The player who’s turn it is; the owner of the marching army.
But when we go back to Army we see:
Quote:
Marching Army – The army that initiated the current march. Note well that this will not necessarily be the same as the maneuvering army or the acting army.


So things are not entirely consistent. I'm leaning toward changing the definition of Acting Army slightly to include dragon attacks. That clears up Dei(ter)'s problem. Marching Army and Marching Player are not really that inconsistent.
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Deeghter
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:29 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:

So things are not entirely consistent. I'm leaning toward changing the definition of Acting Army slightly to include dragon attacks. That clears up Dei(ter)'s problem.


Thank you, Chuck!
In fact, I don't have a problem with the current definitions, since I know how it's handled. It was just meant as a suggestion because I put myself into a newbie's position when I read that part of the rules again and thought that it might probably be a little confusing for someone just starting to play the game. Rolling Eyes
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:40 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, in this case "Dei(ter)'s problem" doesn't mean you have a problem with something, it means the problem you found. Cool English can be weird like that sometimes.
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Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
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Deeghter
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:44 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, Chuck! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

BTW, it's Die(ter), not Dei(ter)! German can be even weirder sometimes! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
I chose the brackets because the German name Dieter begins with the English term for Würfel = die! Since I'm a dice fanatic.....! Well....

Maybe I should change it to Deeghter?? Rolling Eyes
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Last edited by Deeghter on Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:49 am GMT; edited 1 time in total
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:48 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Die(ter). Embarassed

It's that old which hand is fastest problem... (Look at your keyboard if you don't get it).
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Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceâ„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceâ„¢, and others (too many to count).
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Deeghter
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:59 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
Sorry Die(ter). Embarassed

It's that old which hand is fastest problem... (Look at your keyboard if you don't get it).


I type by using the "one-finger-circling-like-an-eagle-and-strike-system"! Laughing Laughing
That eliminates the "which-hand-is-fastest-problem" and leads to the "everybody's-still-waiting-for-a-reply-problem", also called the "how-shall-I-get-all-posts-posted-within-24 hrs-a-day-problem"!! Mr. Green

Am I beginning to slide off-topic?? ...*screetch*....pull hand brake......U-turn....accelerate....

Back on topic again!!
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