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Health Point Variant

 
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:33 am GMT    Post subject: Health Point Variant Reply with quote

Daemon Diceā„¢ is what it is, a quick bloody battle. Once you start to lose you continue to lose in a 'fail fast' model.

However, there are some who like a slower more strategic game.

I'm taking a quick poll, who would be interested in an official variant which introduced a life counter or Hit Points and allowed you to keep stunned dice in-play?
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andymonte
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:00 pm GMT    Post subject: RE: Reply with quote

I would
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loligarchy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:46 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested in giving it a go, not sure if it something that I'd necessarily play around with much.
How much time do you think it'll add to playtime?
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:35 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on feedback I've gotten I've been thinking about this. I know it will complicate this posting, but I wanted to give some background on my reasoning too.

The main issue is the impression that going first means a victory.

Right now that 'first damage' causes you to lose dice which immediately makes you weaker and leads to a loss. Personally, I think that means you should focus on designing for defense and recovery and initiative more, but I have to keep people in the game long enough to get them to that point of maturity of design and most people are just playing with random starters today.

There are different way to implement it, but here is the one I'm leaning towards right now.

Your daemon starts with 13 'Hit Points' or 'Life Points' (new name pending and its really the number of parts). When required to suffer a stun, you can(must) reduce your HP's instead. All other wounds and rules and victory conditions remain the same.

That's it. A small change that could help reduce a lucky roll during the first attack (note: it doesn't help against a lucky lungs/bellows, but that's why we play 2 out of 3)

Now some options on that... If we called them 'Recovery Points' instead, then you would suffer the stun, which would cause you to lose the rolled result(which makes your attack weaker). Then during 1)a new recovery phase at the end/beginning of your turn or 2)during the next Recover Stuns phase, you spend the points to bring stunned parts back.

The issue with #2 is that it's after you have rolled, so it isn't as effective at reducing the first turn damage. i.e. it still leave you weaken, it just brings you back so that they can have a second chance to kill those units.

The issue with #1 is that you lose the rolled results and it introduces a new turn phase.

So... as with any proposed rule change, we should play test it to make sure it accomplishes the goal and doesn't introduce a new issue. So who would like to playtest this? I have my army already in mind (to test that it doesn't make the issue worse).
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:38 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone hate the idea? Love the idea? Careless about the idea?
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:21 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that going first is an advantage, but not an overwhelming one. It's not much different that one would happen later in a game when both demons are at full health. In my playtests with the teenagers, I noted that some guys went for heavy defense (lots of Shells), some for heavy offense (Legs and Tails), and some for a mix of both. In general, the mix worked best. So basically, I see this as a fix for something that really not a problem. Yes, some games are really over before they roll the dice, just because some combinations just can't work against other combinations.

That said, if it gets posted here as a variant here that people can take or leave, that's fine.
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My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:31 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said, I don't think its an issue and I don't expect you to think its an issue.

I think this comes up more in a randomized starter than in a constructed event. A ranomized starter is (generally) not going to be defensive. Thus if two offensive armies face each other does this help to make it less like going first is important to the victory of the game?

If you assume that both players beat on each other evenly, then it doesn't...

chuckpint wrote:

That said, if it gets posted here as a variant here that people can take or leave, that's fine.


and if it were something a bit more official...
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:45 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are asking if I want to put this into the rules that we put up, then the answer is no, I don't. Like I said, if it's just a variant (official or not) that they can only find here on the website, that's fine.
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First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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cliffwiggs
SFR Treasurer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:03 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't gonna ask.

I was just gonna convince you it was a good idea and then wait for you to ask me

Mr. Green
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