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A new plyer's short intro + first questions

 
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Guizo
dragonfoal



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 5
Location: Porto Alegre, RS

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:07 am GMT    Post subject: A new plyer's short intro + first questions Reply with quote

Hi,

I am currently learning how to play how to play Dragon Dice™ in Brazil with two other friends. So far we have three Battle Boxes, two TSR starter sets, an Amazons & Monsters and a Firewalkers kicker pack to split amongst ourselves and learn how to play the game (an Undead vs. Feral starter is also currently migrating to the South). We're doing fine and enjoying the game quite a lot - but some questions keep popping up all the time. Most have to do with the resolution of SAIs or with the exact wording of whatever is happening in the rulebook, so I hope I can count on you guys's help so we can play more decently as soon as possible without makeshift solutions. We have had quite a few situations in which we go "We don't know exactly what happens now - let us just agree that it is so and so for tonight and then we'll check the rulebook for the next playing session". I intend to keep updating this thread as questions show up, but for now the most pressing are:

1) Ash Storm. The exact wording says "Target any terrain. Until the beginning of your turn, subtract one result at the target terrain." It does not say the spell only targets armies. Does this apply to dragons as well, so that I could cast ash storm on a terrain with a dragon to lessen damage I am going to take? Broadening the question a little bit: is it possible for dragons to ever get penalties on their rolls?

2) Cantrips rolled during saves against missiles. If I choose to cast damage-inflicting spells, can I kill a unit that rolled missile damage in order to avoid the damage it would deal or do I take the damage anyway?

3) A variation of the above: the attacking army uses a missile attack and, besides missile damage, rolls cantrips. Defending army rolls four bullseye results while defending itself. If the defending player (i. e., bullseyeing player) intends to deal damage to the cantrip casters, how does that play out?

4) Dragon rolls. If a dragon is alone at a terrain because all units have retreated from that terrain, does it roll for dragon attacks anyway? This is another way of asking whether a drake will ever fly away from an empty terrain.

As I said, we all have a strong suspicion that the answers to most questions is simply "no" (except for no. 3 which is just puzzling at this moment), but we are not 100% sure. So, any help is much appreciated.

Thanks a lot!
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chuckpint
White Dragon
SFR President
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Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 9001
Location: Evanston, IL

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:48 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully, you have downloaded the newest rules from our website. The rules in the Battlebox, TSR starters, and kickers are pretty old.

1) Here's a quote from the rules in the introduction to the spells:
Quote:
Spells that target a terrain affect all armies present at that terrain.
Example: A terrain is targeted with an Ash Storm spell. All armies at that terrain must subtract 1 from their results for the duration of the spell.
Example: A terrain is targeted with a Firestorm spell. All armies at that terrain immediately take two points of damage.
From the Glossary:
Quote:
Dragon: A 12-sided die that is not a component and is never part of any army. Dragons come in two forms: drakes (which have wings) and wyrms (which are wingless). Dragons start the game in players’ summoning pool (out of play) and remain there until they are summoned (brought in play), at which time they are moved to a terrain. When defeated, they are taken out of play and return to their owner’s summoning pool or are out of the game if banished by a Dragonhunter.
So you can see that a Ash Storm affects all armies, but a dragon is not an army. Therefore it is not affected by the Ash Storm or any other spell that affects an army.

2) Another quote from the glossary:
Quote:
Finalized Results: The end-state of a result after all modifications and effects are applied. Note: finalized results cannot be changed by any effect.
So since the attack is Finalized before the roll for saves, the Cantrip cannot change those results. Note that the save roll is NOT finalized, so if you cast a protective spell or two with the Cantrip, those add to the save results.

3) This question makes a lot of incorrect assumptions, I'll go through them all. So the attacking player rolls for missile damage. The defending player does not roll until the attacking player has finalized all his army results. So first he would resolve the Cantrips (those are Unique resolution SAIs so are resolved before the rest of the army roll). Then resolve all the rest of the army roll. Once those results are finalized, those results cannot be changed. Then the defending army rolls for saves. Only SAIs that work during a save roll would work. Bullseye only works during a missile action (i.e. the attack part). It does not work during a save. Here's the definition of an action from the glossary:
Quote:
Action: An activity performed by an army with the intent to generate melee, missile or magic results. Actions are taken as part of an army’s march or during a roll where melee, missile or magic results are required to avoid an effect. See avoidance roll. Note well that, by definition, maneuvers (and counter-maneuvers), maneuver avoidance rolls, combination rolls in response to a dragon attack, save rolls made to prevent damage and save avoidance rolls against individual-targeting effects are not actions. See save roll and targeting effect.
So the defender's Bullseyes do nothing.

4) No. From the introduction to dragon attacks:
Quote:
When dragons are summoned to a terrain, they attack armies at that terrain. After the Initial Effects phase, wherever dragon(s) and an army of yours are at the same terrain, a dragon attack occurs.
So note all the things that trigger a dragon attack: Dragon at a terrain. Army at the same terrain. Just after the Initial Effect phase of that player's turn (i.e. the dragon attack phase). So if there are no armies at the terrain the dragon just sits there. If a dragon is summoned to a terrain where the acting player has an army, the dragon does not attack because it's no longer in the dragon attack phase part of the turn.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice™ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice™, 20,000 Daemon Dice™, and others (too many to count).
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Guizo
dragonfoal



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 5
Location: Porto Alegre, RS

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:05 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Hopefully, you have downloaded the newest rules from our website. The rules in the Battlebox, TSR starters, and kickers are pretty old."

Yes! I forgot to mention that, but we do have the newest manual printed out.

And since the ash storm + dragon question has been answered: is there absolutely any way for a player to have a penalty applied to an attacking dragon or will (for example) a roll of claws deal six damage in every imaginable scenario before the attacked player rolls for saves?

(Also, I see that though you have answered all of my questions, my initial post was not - as of my writing this reply - been approved and doesn't show up in the forum. Can you please check that?)

Thanks a lot!
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chuckpint
White Dragon
SFR President
Site Admin



Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 9001
Location: Evanston, IL

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:45 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only effects that affect dragons are summoning effects and Eldarim logos. Nothing affects their damage roll directly. Indirectly, Bash will turn their damage back on them.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice™ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice™, 20,000 Daemon Dice™, and others (too many to count).
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