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GenCon 2015

 
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:49 am GMT    Post subject: GenCon 2015 Reply with quote

This thread will be updated with news from GenCon 2015 as we can. First of all, our booth is #1849. Be sure to visit (and buy stuff). We may just have a daily special. If so, you will see it here.

Our new playmats are in! We have one for Dragon Diceā„¢ and one for Daemon Diceā„¢. We only got 50 of each, so don't delay! If these sell well, we will make some more. If not, these may be the last we ever get....
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Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
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My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:26 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't stand the Drama! Mr. Green

If you ARE at gencon, make sure to come attend the events.

I'm stickering some dice that should make for an interesting playtest of a potential future release...
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:45 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cars are packed. One is on its way. The other ready to go. Do we have everything? I sure hope so.
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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chuckpint
White Dragon
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:55 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Friday special:
Buy two Daemon Diceā„¢ starters and get a Daemon Diceā„¢ mat for half price ($6 vs $12). Just tell Shannon the secret word: Potato
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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grizzbear111
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:56 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ack! I can't make Gencon this year but hoping for next year. Was hoping to buy a mat from the SFR store in 3 weeks, praying you'll have more??
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:54 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

We did sell all 50 of them at GenCon. So we are ordering more. They should be in stock in about 3 weeks.
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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MikeD
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:10 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was happy to renew my SFR friendships at GENCON this year. Don't know yet if I will be able to make next year's GENCON, it's being held close to our 40th wedding anniversary, so depending on what we plan to celebrate this milestone will determine if I can come or not.

Later,
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dburkley
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:52 pm GMT    Post subject: GenCon 2015 Reply with quote

Will there be any posting of the events and results? I would offer my own experiences, but I could not attend this year, so there should be a new World Champion.

The lads from Europe are curious as well.
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"Single Race": DEXCON 2008, GENCON 2010, 2011, 2014 (co-champion), 2017
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:16 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: GenCon 2015 Reply with quote

dburkley wrote:
so there should be a new World Champion.

The lads from Europe are curious as well.


Shoe, you wanna tell the story?
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shoesan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:25 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: GenCon 2015 Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:


Shoe, you wanna tell the story?


Well, I will tell it. But with a warning... I am biased!

The judge declared a three-way tie for first at Worlds this year. Me, Nick, and Jared each shared in the distinction. Its not without controversy, and that is where my bias will come in.

There were only 4 people playing Worlds this year: me, Nick, Jared, and a fourth guy whose name eludes me at the moment. The tournament was then set up for us to each play each other head-to-head. From what I can remember of the armies, it was something like this:

Me: 6 Trolls, 1 Ashbringer, 3 Hedge Wizards
Jared: 3 Trolls, 3 Nightmares, 3 Medusas (Jared was a last minute add to the tournament to get us to 4 people. As he didn't have an army for Worlds, I let him borrow my "No Magicians" army... which, incidentally won the No Magicians tournament)
Nick: 1 Gold medallion, 8 Eladrim Champions (Lords, Gold DMs, Blue DMs, at least one Zealot... can't remember exactly, but White, Gold, and Blue)
The other guy: 36 points of Frostwings... with a missile focus

The results of the first three rounds were: I beat Jared, Jared beat Nick, and Nick beat me. All three of us beat the fourth guy. This led to a three-way tie for first.

John K, the judge, decided that the three tied for first would play a multiplayer game to give a clear winner for Worlds. There was precedence for this as John told us that the Worlds tournament in the past had a multiplayer game component to it. The question of time came up... how long the game would go on. I didn't think there should be a time limit, as the purpose of this game was to declare an absolute winner. But John didn't want to risk getting into a game that went on forever. For the record, I think we need to establish a good set of rules for this kind of situation, instead of making the judge on hand have to try and come up with something ad hoc that is fair and still gets the results desired (1 clear-cut winner). When we started the game, no one was sure how long the game was going to go, as John hadn't decided. Somewhere into the game, he did decide, but I am not exactly sure what the time was. I think it was an hour and a half.

In this last game, both Nick and I captured 8's early on (Nick captured my swamplands, and I captured Jared's flatlands), and Jared decided to hang out in the reserves as he didn't want to risk being attacked by either of us without the benefit of his own 8. I believe he was waiting for one of us to knock out the other, and then make a move. Eventually, Nick was able to get me off of my 8 and Jared came in and captured it. It was a flatland tower (Jared's Home Terrain), so he was set up pretty well and I retreated to reserves to let my Trolls bring back my army.

Once I was back to full strength, I came out and attacked Nick at his home, but the dice were not kind, and I got whacked again. I went back to reserves and regrouped with the Trolls. Then I sent two units to the other two terrains and started advancing both of them. Nick and Jared were at a stalemate, as Jared was not doing enough missile damage to significantly weaken Nick and Nick didn't want to fully engage Jared without knowing exactly what I was going to do. I think Nick was content to let me get the other two terrains close to 8 and then make a move.

At some point, the timer when off. John said to ignore it, as it was not the 10 minute warning... it was the 10 minute warning if we had been playing a 45-minute game like we had during the head-to-head matches. At some point later, the timer went off again, and John said that it WAS the 10 minute warning. None of us were really paying much attention to time. This was the Worlds-deciding game after all!

I ended up capturing the Frontier terrain, leaving only Nick's home terrain not at 8. I got a few dice over there, and so did Jared. I don't remember why Nick didn't have anyone there at the end... missed timing it? When the game ended, I believe Nick had units in reserve, so he was on his way. He was just going to be too late.

Anyways, I turned it to 7 on my turn. Nick put units in reserve on his turn. Jared had two options... try for magic to cast Transmutes on me, with a very poor chance of getting magic given his army make up, or missile me with enough damage to completely wipe out my army at that terrain. I think I had something like 3 Trolls and a 2 Hedge Wizards, or something like that. He opted for missiles, and only managed to kill off a couple of dice. It really could have been ugly with the nightmares and medusas, but lady luck favored the bold! I think I still had three units there after his attack. He only had one Troll there. He tried to turn it to 8 but was unsuccessful.

After his turn, I was up. I initially thought the game was over, as I reached over and said "I turn the terrain up to 8". Looking at the dice at the terrain, I saw 2 Hedge Wizards and 2 Trolls, and initially thought they were all mine. But one of the Trolls belonged to Jared, as everyone pointed out to me right away. Haha... my bad. OK, then before I try and turn the terrain to 8, I will cast magic at the terrain I already hold an 8 at. I rolled and got 13 points of magic. I should have just said "One Transmute Rock to Mud on Jared's army" and then declared I wanted to turn the terrain. But, I wanted to spend all my magic points, you know, just in case. So I ended up casting the 1 transmute rock to mud and pathed over two more dice. As I was moving the dice over to the terrain, the timer went off, and John declared the game over. I got to finish the action at hand... resolving the spells, but was not allowed to take my second march.

The second march would have looked like this: I had 5 dice at the terrain that was at 7. Jared had one die there... a troll, with one regular maneuver face and one ID as its only means of generating maneuvers. Most importantly, the Troll has no means of generating an SAI-generated maneuver, so regardless of what it rolls, the Transmute Rock to Mud will negate it entirely. The best result Jared could have gotten would have been 0 results. The worst result I could have gotten with my 5 dice was 0 results. I would have won the tie-breaker since I was the acting army. The game was literally 5 seconds away from being decided, and there is no dispute that I would have won. It was literally impossible for Jared to stop me from turning the terrain on my second march.

John decided to call it a draw as each of the three of us had one 8th face when time ran out. I'd like to say I can't argue with that, but I feel I can. The point of the game was to have a clear winner. None of us were worried about time, we all wanted to see one winner. In five more seconds, there would have been a clear winner. In John's defense, he was trying to keep things consistent and fair. Every tournament game has a time limit, so John was just enforcing that. But what is the point of allowing a tie-breaking game to end in a tie?

There needs to be a better way to handle this in the future. Perhaps at the end of the game, if there is a tie, then you go to a "sudden death", where victory conditions change a little.

1) If anyone had their turn interrupted by the timer, that person finishes their turn. There is no point not allowing a person to finish their turn if the game is continuing. Once this person finishes their turn (or immediately if time was called between 2 player's turns) Sudden Death starts.

2) If only one person has an 8th face, that person wins.

3a) If two (or more) people have an 8th face, then the game continues only for the players who have an 8th face under Sudden Death rules. The next person up will "start" the sudden death round count.

3b) If no one has an 8th face, play continues for all players under Sudden Death Rules. The next person up will "start" the sudden death round count.

4) Anyone who captures a second 8 immediately wins and the game is over... just like normal.

5) Unless someone captures a second 8th face, each player will always get one turn (of two marches, just like normal). The only way Sudden Death ends without a player getting a turn is by someone else getting a second 8th face.

6) Once each player has taken a turn, re-evaluate the game conditions. If no one has an 8th face, play another round. If only one person has an 8th face, that person wins. If two or more people have one 8th face, play another round with only the people who have an 8th face.

Eventually, someone will win this way. Its not ideal, but I don't think anyone would have to worry that the game would go on too long. It wont take too long for someone to win this way. And it will lead to a clear winner, which is something we all should want.

My suggestion here may not be perfect, so I'd love to see what suggestions other folks might have to resolve these kinds of situations. But I think its clear we need a better way to resolve ties.

This year we only played 3 rounds in each tournament, even though most tournaments had enough time to play a 4th round. I think this was the right call, as 4th rounds usually cause a lot of trouble in the standings. The only 4th round we played was the Worlds tie-breaker game. I think this is the way it should be going forward.

For the record, my thoughts on playing a tie-breaker (with or without a sudden death) are that we should play them, but only for folks who actually tied for first place. I do not think we need to play a 4th round, where someone who was in third place can win first place if the results of a 4th round work out to their favor. Only actual first place-tied participants should play in a 4th round, designed specifically to generate an undisputed winner. If others want to also play casually during the 4th round, that's fine. But those results do not mean anything. Anyone entering a tournament should expect that they might have to play a 4th round, or forfeit if they can't, if they end up in a tie for first place. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation for any tournament. And if they can't stick around for a tie-breaker, then they must forfeit. I don't really think this will be an issue. We usually have time to play most of a 4th round at these events as it is.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:55 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it helps, we all think of you as the winner and should you want to formally complain there is a precedence where I as the convention director can override the tournament director... I had to do it two years ago.
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DEEPBLUEB2
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:16 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you post the armies so I can add them to the Worlds Pool?

congrats to all Razz
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shoesan
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:17 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
If it helps, we all think of you as the winner and should you want to formally complain there is a precedence where I as the convention director can override the tournament director... I had to do it two years ago.


I am not going to formally complain, whatever that means. I respect John and have no desire to challenge him on this. The details of how the game ended are known. If it should be overturned, then overturn it. If not, so be it. I think I should have won, but only because I think the game should have continued. Again, it didn't make sense to me to allow a tie break match to end in a tie. If we were up against another tournament starting, then there might be an argument, but Battlefest was still an hour away. And this was Worlds. If there was ever a reason to accommodate a late start to wrap up a previous event, I would think Worlds would be it. In this particular case, the game would have only been extended another 5 seconds, and that was known when it was called a draw.

My view as to me winning is because everyone is in agreement that I would have won on my second march. Short of me simply deciding not to attempt to turn the terrain, there was nothing to prevent my victory. Neither opponent had the means to stop me.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:45 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can let you know that we were already planning to review and update the floor rules, this type of tie breaking will now become part of that review.
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Last edited by cliffwiggs on Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:20 pm GMT; edited 1 time in total
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shoesan
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:07 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you are not reviewing how to handle ties?
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:21 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

shoesan wrote:
So, you are not reviewing how to handle ties?
sigh..

NOW
NOW
NOW
NOW
NOW

even as I typed that, my stupid finger kept wanting to hit it T instead of a W, I take that as a sign that it is quitting time.
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shoesan
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:34 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha. Now it makes sense. (Not?!)
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