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rules questions regarding fire walker

 
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Jens
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:47 am GMT    Post subject: rules questions regarding fire walker Reply with quote

Hi !

Some questions coming up at our last game meeting:

Can flaming shields be used during the opponents melee action: can a fly make 4 damage at the attacking army ?

Could the saves of a counter cause 8 damage at the attacking army ?

Thanks for your attention and time !!
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:08 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaming shields are only active when the Firewalkers are rolling for melee. They are simply saves at all other times.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:14 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must ask.

2.9 was save icons only.
3.0 says save results.

i.e. Fly would not produce melee in 2.9, but does in 3.0

was this change done on purpose?
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:05 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

On purpose, no. Another side-effect of simplifying the text.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:52 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still unpacking from Gencon, but as soon as I catch my breath I'd like to discuss these types of things. We have several 'icon only' effects that have migrated to 'result effects' and I want to review if we can go all one way or the other. Smile
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Drachenwurfel
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:00 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, that may ne important for the German Championship this Sunday.
So the Ruling is, Fly Generates Melle for Firewalkers?
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:05 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is how it is currently worded.
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TecnoSmurf
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:43 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh... shit...
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:28 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

TecnoSmurf wrote:
Oh... shit...


I will just point out for the purpose of your tournament this weekend that the local TD is allowed to make event changes as long as it is all announced and agreed upon before hand.

I know that some of the EU events have 'starter-ish' construction constraints that are not typical. This racial ability could be another example of that. It's the TD's call.
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dburkley
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:05 am GMT    Post subject: Firewalkers SAIs and Flaming Shields Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
I must ask.

2.9 was save icons only.
3.0 says save results.

i.e. Fly would not produce melee in 2.9, but does in 3.0

was this change done on purpose?


Let's look at that more closely:
Firewalkers (2.9)
Terrain Flight: During the retreat phase of the Reserve Movement, the Firewalkers may immediately move from any terrain with the blue (air) element to any other terrain.
Flaming Shields: Firewalkers may, during a melee attack, count save results (only from actual save icon results, not ID icons or SAIs) as if they were melee results.

Counter (2.9): Normal (melee, save, and dragon attack); Special and Normal (save against melee attack)
During a melee attack or melee avoidance roll, Counter generates melee results. During a save roll, Counter generates save results. During a save roll in a melee attack, Counter immediately generates both save results and melee results upon the attacking army or unit. Only magical saves protect against this damage. During a dragon attack, Counter generates save and melee results.

Fly (2.9): Normal (any)
During any roll, each Fly result generates one maneuver or one save result.


Firewalkers (3.0):
During the retreat phase of the Reserve Movement, the Firewalkers may move from any terrain with the blue (air) element to any other terrain.
Flaming Shields: During a melee action Firewalkers may count save results as melee results.

Counter (3.0): (dragon attack, melee, save, save against melee)
During a save roll against a melee attack, Counter generates X save and X melee results upon the
attacking army. Only magical saves protect against this damage.
During any other save roll, Counter generates X save results.
During a melee attack, Counter generates X melee results.
During a dragon attack, Counter generates X save and X melee results.

Fly (3.0): (maneuver, save)
During a maneuver roll, Fly generates X maneuvers.
During a save roll, Fly generates X saves.

So during a melee attack in a 3.0 game, the Fly SAI does not generate saves, so Flaming Shields does not trigger when Fly is rolled. [NOTE: Flaming Shields would trigger with the 2.9 version of the Fly SAI.] The Counter SAI would still generate melee results during a melee attack (as it normally does). Flaming Shields does not trigger when Counter is rolled.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:55 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, thanks for the good analysis.

To help make it clearer and to remove any doubt (or accidental changes in the future), the wording of the racial ability will be updated in the 3.0.1 rules expected to be released in about 5 weeks. Nothing earth shattering in that version, mostly wording corrections like this.
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