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SAI Brainstorm: Dispel Magic

 
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Pogomogo
dragonfoal



Joined: 23 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:40 am GMT    Post subject: SAI Brainstorm: Dispel Magic Reply with quote

I know SAIs are on the docket for review and maybe already have been reviewed, but not discussed on the forums in great detail. I was thinking about ways to shake up the dynamic to bring more units into army build consideration, that may not see much play otherwise.

Dispel Magic: (magic targets unit, army or terrain with unit has this ability)
Whenever any magic targets this unit, the army containing this unit and/or the terrain this unit occupies, you may
roll this unit after all spells are announced but before any are resolved. If the Dispel Magic icon comes up, negate
all unresolved magic that applies to the target(s). Only one dispel attempt is made per unit and, if it fails, then all
the spell(s) are resolved normally. (Rules 3.0-20160711.pdf)

Forum > Game Strategy > Racial Introductions (circa 2008-09; analysis maybe due for updates with 3.0; maybe not)

Dwarf:
Gargoyle [Dispel Magic, Dispel Magic, maneuver, Fly, Fly, save, melee, melee, Smite]
The Gargoyle is fairly evenly split between maneuver, melee, and saves, but no magic or missile. The Dispel Magic can be an unpleasant surprise to opposing spellcasters, but is not reliable.

Undead:
Fenhound [maneuver, maneuver, melee, melee, Dispel Magic, Dispel Magic, save, save, Smite]
The Fenhound is not a particularly powerful unit, but is able to melee, with a 30% chance of getting a maneuver or save, and 40% chance of getting a melee result. The Dispel Magic can be an unpleasant surprise to opposing spellcasters, but is not reliable.

Feral:
Owl-folk [Dispel Magic, Dispel Magic, magic, magic, magic, Fly, Fly, Screech, Seize]
The Owl-folk is a magician monster, but instead of a Cantrip, it has two faces of Dispel Magic – which might prove useful, although not that reliable. Although the Owl-folk has six SAIs, it is not considered that useful a monster, due to the diverse nature of its SAIs. As a magician, the Owl-folk has only a 40% chance of contributing to a magic roll, and the absence of a Cantrip SAI is a weakness. It only offers a 20% chance to contribute to a melee or missile roll, and a 30% chance towards a maneuver or save roll.

Scalder:
Will o Wisps [Confuse, Fly, Fly, Dispel Magic, Dispel Magic, magic, magic, missile, melee]
The Will o Wisps is an interesting magic unit. It’s 5 diverse SAI’s make it a bit unpredictable and tough to decide where it should be employed.

Treefolk:
Unicorn [Counter, Trample, Trample, Dispel Magic, Dispel Magic, Teleport, Teleport, save, save]
The Unicorn is as interesting as it’s rarity: very. It’s 7 SAI’s promote a maneuver and melee strategy. The Teleport SAI can permit some unexpected opportunities, acting like an instant Path spell for itself and 3-health worth of passengers. The Unicorn has the Dispel Magic SAI, which is often useless, but offers the chance of foiling opponents’ magic against the army its in (including summoned Dragons).


Common theme:
Unpleasant surprise to opposing spellcasters
Not reliable
Might prove useful
~unpredictable (general Scalder statement)
Often useless

Thoughts that came to my mind:

To address the unreliable, rather than only one dispel attempt is made after all spells are announced, it is instead rolled during the resolution for each spell that applies to the targets(s). The unreliable 20% now has more opportunities to have an impact, but not to all the spells.

To address the often useless, give it a proactive result on a roll to remove one spell to the target(s).

To improve the usefulness, add an additional defensive bubble layer to include other units in the same army being targeted, instead of just the 'army' as the target.

To change the might prove useful, give it an offensive characteristic that flips the target(s) when taking a march to dispel beneficial magic on the opponent's units, army, or terrain; melee march may be targets at the same location, missile march may be targets at the target army's terrain, magic march targets may be at current location.

To keep it a surprise to more than the opposing spellcaster, include the rolling spellcaster. If improved to add an offensive characteristic, consider a risk-reward effect. Such as when rolled it must dispel a magic effect from a valid target of the owners choice at the current terrain if any exist. This could be beneficial if the opposing player has magic in play or detrimental if they don't and the player who just rolled must target his own magic effects in play to dispel.

Would be interested in other people's thought.
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Denimwizard
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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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Location: Maryland

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:38 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To address the unreliable, rather than only one dispel attempt is made after all spells are announced, it is instead rolled during the resolution for each spell that applies to the targets(s). The unreliable 20% now has more opportunities to have an impact, but not to all the spells


My only concern with this is that it will bog down the game, though probably not too much.



Quote:
To improve the usefulness, add an additional defensive bubble layer to include other units in the same army being targeted, instead of just the 'army' as the target.


I agree with this idea as it could potentially keep certain spells like Finger of Death and Lightning Strike in check.


Quote:
To change the might prove useful, give it an offensive characteristic that flips the target(s) when taking a march to dispel beneficial magic on the opponent's units, army, or terrain; melee march may be targets at the same location, missile march may be targets at the target army's terrain, magic march targets may be at current location


I had to read this three times to make sure i got the idea correct. Given that i would worry this would be too confusing to implement during game play.

However one idea along this thread could be that dispel effects spells that have been resolved. Excluding dragons that have been summoned; any dispel icon that lands removes one spell in play that turn of the the players choosing. e.g Transmute Rock to mud, Wind Walk, Open Grave etc..

This would give the SAI more bite, and may be helpful to those players who forget about the dispel icon on their unit entirely. I can't count how many times I have forgotten to roll for dispel when the chance arose. Rolling Eyes
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Pogomogo
dragonfoal



Joined: 23 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:24 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I had to read this three times to make sure i got the idea correct. Given that i would worry this would be too confusing to implement during game play.


Quote:
However one idea along this thread could be that dispel effects spells that have been resolved. Excluding dragons that have been summoned; any dispel icon that lands removes one spell in play that turn of the the players choosing. e.g Transmute Rock to mud, Wind Walk, Open Grave etc..


Limiting to resolved spells would make the rule simpler, by not even having to limit or expand the targets. It would lose the potential to protect from instantly resolved spells. However, in the past dispel magic didn't protect from finger of death or lightning strike that didn't target the unit directly.

As for Dragons, maybe they could be in play for removal, since a terrain targeted spell brought them there. It could be thought of as the equivalent of drake rolling wings. The dispel icon roll couldn't happen until the army is doing the combined attack/save roll after being attacked. The army would still need to figure out breath resolution or damage saved. On the other hand, a dragon's presence itself isn't a resolved spell, so I can see not being a target making sense also.

Since the magic action rules state:

"Once you have decided how to spend your magic points, announce all of the spells you are casting and their targets. Then resolve the spells one at a time in any order you wish."

Dispel Magic could retain the reactive roll and selects a single spell of choice, before resolution. Trying to effectively increase the targets of the Dispel SAI without having to list all the potential spell targets. Then avoid wording to negate all target spells.
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Denimwizard
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:51 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Limiting to resolved spells would make the rule simpler, by not even having to limit or expand the targets. It would lose the potential to protect from instantly resolved spells. However, in the past dispel magic didn't protect from finger of death or lightning strike that didn't target the unit directly.


I wasn't saying to restrict it i stated it in the understanding that it was going to be additional effect to what the SAI currently does.
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Pogomogo
dragonfoal



Joined: 23 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:02 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understood you weren't trying to limit in your comment. I could have been more clear in mine. I wasn't advocating or criticizing, as much as adding thoughts.

Better stated:

Changing my earlier comment to resolved spells (or spells in play) would be a way to effectively increase the 'targets' of the SAI without having to state them specifically; cleaning up my earlier comment, as you noted. It would include spells on other single targets and opponent's army.

Limiting to resolved, while changing the mechanic, would be increasing targets for less words in the rule book. Being additive to the current effect means the rule would increase in impact and description.
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