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Spell changes from 2.x to 3.x rules

 
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Dolus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:28 am GMT    Post subject: Spell changes from 2.x to 3.x rules Reply with quote

I don't have exact versions for when rules were added or removed our modified, but I have finally gotten around to looking at the spell list from the new rules and seen a broad strokes picture of what's different. I wanted to comment on what I saw, just because if you're used to the old spells, it's easy to miss spells that have been removed or modified.

Many spells have been removed.
Some spells have had modifications to one or more of the following:
- the race that can cast it.
- the color of the spell
- the details of the effect of the spell

There are 3 spells per color and 2 spells per race (divided between the two colors). Amazon racial spells are colorless and undead get 4 racial spells (to account for only one color of spells).

Some of the major changes:
- everybody can revive units. It's a generic spell now.
- nobody can bury units. Burying units is now a difficult thing to do.
- no more adding/removing colors on a terrain or adding terrain types.
- any version of the 'hide' spell has been removed.
- spells with lasting effects on individual dice (which is difficult to track) has been removed. E.g. Earthen Armor
- spells targeting items, spells, dragonkin, or minor terrain have been removed.


Now for some more specific spells that have been modified.
Open Grave is now an undead spell.
Path requires you to have a unit at the terrain you are pathing to.
3 Amazon spells have been reclassified to other races: honor the deal, higher ground, and deluge. Honor the dead is also another color. I wonder how useful it'll be given how less common burying units will become.
Scent of fear is now a goblin spell.
Wilding explicitly doesn't allow SAIs
Mirage can now be increased to affect different size of units. But you can only get one size per terrain per magic action.
Firebolt is now a Dwarf spell.
Soiled ground is not a racial spell anymore and can Target any terrain.



Overall I like these changes. The text is also much clearer to read and understand. This also removes sneaky wins like path to victory or hide + TRtM. And a lot of mostly useless spells have been removed or improved. There are some I'll miss, but I like the changes and the direction overall.

Given the current structure, my preference I'm the rulebook is to see all the spells anybody can cast sorted separately from the racial spells.
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:18 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still familiarizing myself with all the changes, but I am certainly glad Path got the nerf it so badly needed. Now it seems to fall in line perfectly with how I felt it should work. You can move your forces around more effectively, but you can no longer steal wins.

I haven't double-checked your numbers, but I like math consistency. So if each element and race has symmetrical distribution of spells, then I'm glad to hear it!
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:33 am GMT    Post subject: Re: Spell changes from 2.x to 3.x rules Reply with quote

Dolus wrote:

Soiled ground is not a racial spell anymore and can Target any terrain.
This is now the easiest way to bury. I'm surprised it isn't used more.

Quote:

Given the current structure, my preference I'm the rulebook is to see all the spells anybody can cast sorted separately from the racial spells.


We discussed a lot how best to list the spells. So your suggestion is to split the basic spells out and then how would you list the racial spells? by race or by color?
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Last edited by cliffwiggs on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:37 pm GMT; edited 1 time in total
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Dolus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:25 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: Spell changes from 2.x to 3.x rules Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
Dolus wrote:

Soiled ground is not a racial spell anymore and can Target any terrain.
This is not the easiest way to bury. I'm surprised it isn't used more.

Either I'm reading this wrong our there's a "not" missing somewhere.

Are you not surprised this isn't used more? And if that's so, would it be better to have a different goblin racial black spell?

I can see it in the earlier rules not being the easiest way to bury, but now that there aren't spells to bury dead, is that still the case?

cliffwiggs wrote:

Quote:

Given the current structure, my preference I'm the rulebook is to see all the spells anybody can cast sorted separately from the racial spells.


We discussed a lot how best to list the spells. So your suggestion is to split the basic spells out and then how would you list the racial spells? by race or by color?


I remember the discussion but couldn't remember where it was.

I keep a spreadsheet of the spells so I can quickly sort or filter however I want. My preferred sorting with the new spell list is first listing all the spells that anybody can cast and sorting those by color. Then after that sorting the racial spells by race and stating what the color is. If I can provide a screenshot later for clarity I will.

My reasoning is what without an interactive way to organize the spells, you're going to have to look around in multiple places for all possible spells. Two possible ways to sort are by race then color (with "all" being a 'race'), or by color. In both cases, sorting last by cost.

In the case of a single race army:
The first gives you three locations to look. Your first color, second color, and race.
The second gives you two places to look, your first color and your second color. This is less, but for each spell, you have to look at race to see if it's allowed or off limits for you.

I think looking in one extra location is easier for our minds to do than to try to parse and filter out parts to see what's legal.

I'm on my phone, so typing sucks, but I'll see if I can get more thoughts down on computer on this.


On that thought, that would be a really cool website edition. An interactive spell list. Choose what races and/or colors are available to you, and see the spells in a sortable, rearrangeable format.[/s]
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:44 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: Spell changes from 2.x to 3.x rules Reply with quote

Dolus wrote:

Either I'm reading this wrong our there's a "not" missing somewhere.
This is the 2nd time today my brain said Now and my fingers said not.


Quote:

On that thought, that would be a really cool website edition. An interactive spell list. Choose what races and/or colors are available to you, and see the spells in a sortable, rearrangeable format.[/s]


This is one reason I want spell cards. then i can hold a hand of the spells available to me. It would help me keep it straight in my mind.
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Dolus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:06 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: Spell changes from 2.x to 3.x rules Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
Dolus wrote:

Either I'm reading this wrong our there's a "not" missing somewhere.
This is the 2nd time today my brain said Now and my fingers said not.


That makes more sense. I agree.

At first I thought it was a new spell because I think I'd written it off as "I don't play goblin" and "this is limited and I have ashes to ashes". I definitely think it could be very useful now. But I wouldn't have even thought of it if I didn't do a complete reread of the new spells list.
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