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Legendary Units
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:42 pm GMT    Post subject: Legendary Units Reply with quote

We've got generic mages, soldiers, and cavalry. We've got fantastic monsters and dragons. Where is the love for legends?

20-sided dice could represent those mystical figures that people whisper of in the dead of night. The heroes that are immortalized in bronze statues and stained glass windows. Or the horrors that are passed down through folklore.

* 6 points
* No more than one per player
* Starts in reserve
* Players must bring 6 points extra as a "sideboard" (see below)
* If two players bring the same Legend, the player that takes their turn first uses theirs; the other player places their sideboard in reserves instead of the Legend. (This makes selecting the Frontier an interesting decision)
* When a player attacks an army containing a Legend, they may assign up to 6 of the total damage directly to the Legend.
* Perhaps some SAIs are only available on a Legend?

What other ideas can you think of?
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Katsu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:42 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well 20 siders have been discussed before and generally dismissed for various reasons (- faces too small to hold a good icon/SAI, die would have to be too big, would roll for a really long time, etc) I'm sure someone will pop up to mention any I missed.

I do like the idea though - they could be Mono-Colored (like 'Kin) or Color+Ivory (like Undead) - You have to have at least half of your points in units that match the color to bring a legend of that color.

So I'd suggest putting it on a Standard size D8 - it's not in use for any units in game yet and would still stand out from terrain and minor terrain - size and icons.

Health is debatable, as are rules for how these guys would work.

---

Production wise;

Two ways I can see-
The expensive way: Each color gets it's own mold and unique set of Legends - Few legends are duplicated between colors to increase theme and uniqueness.

The cheap way: One mold - just change colors of plastic. Every color gets the same guys - kinda anti-thematic - "Hey look, the Gob's brought Aragorn too!"

Some of the anti-thematic nature could be mitigated by giving the legends unique names for each color and maybe unique SAI's (SFR/or/TSR did it for Medallions already - same SAI different effect).
- a color based Legendary power,
- Maybe a Once-Per-Game power?

anyway, just some thoughts.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:23 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a third way: use the same kind of molds we use for Eldarim champions. The colors may be a problem (i.e. the color pattern will look different). Nice thing about those molds: the mold sides are interchangeable (which is why there are variations). So we can use some of the same mold sides for different dice and save some money, while having different IDs for each die.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:03 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
The colors may be a problem (i.e. the color pattern will look different).


I'm curious what the average player would think about this...

What if the upper left were a dwarf? the upper right a swamp stalker?
see the goblin and frostwing and lava elf in those images?


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Matthias Maccabeus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:39 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
chuckpint wrote:
The colors may be a problem (i.e. the color pattern will look different).


I'm curious what the average player would think about this...

What if the upper left were a dwarf? the upper right a swamp stalker?
see the goblin and frostwing and lava elf in those images?



Actually those dice would be better (IMO) as far as being able to identify the races (or terrains) 2 colors by looking at it. I know I struggled knowing what the 2 colors were of all the races and terrain at the very beginning and so do a lot of my buddies when we play.
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DarkKindness
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:02 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually really like those color combos... it's much easier to tell what colors each race is, and gives nature and death races a more cohesive identity. I'm actually kind of sad that the normal dice aren't done in this method, having seen it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:04 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
There is a third way: use the same kind of molds we use for Eldarim champions. The colors may be a problem (i.e. the color pattern will look different). Nice thing about those molds: the mold sides are interchangeable (which is why there are variations). So we can use some of the same mold sides for different dice and save some money, while having different IDs for each die.


This would be a great idea! You could have a single SAI icon that basically represents "special ability", and that ability would be unique to that legend:

These will need adjustment for balance, but rough ideas.

Whirlwind: During a melee attack or counterattack, this deals damage to the opposing army equal to half the number of units in that army. That army rolls for saves or maneuvers to avoid this damage.

Headshot: During a missile action, choose one unit in the opposing army to be killed and buried, no save possible.

Cleave: During a melee attack or counterattack, choose one unit to be killed. The unit's controller chooses another unit in the same army to save or be killed. Repeat this process until a unit saves.

Thunderous Charge: During a maneuver roll, generates X maneuver results; after the opposing army rolls to counter-maneuver, choose up to X health-worth of units that didn't roll a maneuver result to be killed, no saves possible.

Invocation: During a magic action, generates magic results; generate one extra magic result for each spell you cast during this magic action.

Sentinel: During a save roll or non-maneuver avoidance roll, generates the appropriate results; choose two other units in the same army and those units cannot be removed as casualties this action.
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digitalsith
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:29 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those colors are without a doubt easier to identify. I know my Goblins don’t look gold and black, they look green and black. Is this a option for the future?
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:10 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets just call this a popular opinion poll.

What would you think if you have traditional goblins in an army with a die that looked like that but was still considered a goblin.
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Katsu
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:12 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

digitalsith wrote:
Those colors are without a doubt easier to identify. I know my Goblins don’t look gold and black, they look green and black. Is this a option for the future?


From what I've read around here. No. The dice we see in this thread are made via a different process/molds, and the method is not compatible with the existing Goblin molds. So short of making a new goblin mold for this style, which is most likely prohibitively expensive (as it doesn't add anything new product wise).
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DarkKindness
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:14 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two thoughts: I'd rather have ALL of the dice re-issued in that color scheme, and I'd be just fine with having a legend that looked like that in a traditional-looking army - it'd give the legend some more pop beyond just being a (presumably) larger die.
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Last edited by DarkKindness on Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:31 pm GMT; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:15 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katsu wrote:
So short of making a new goblin mold for this style, which is most likely prohibitively expensive (as it doesn't add anything new product wise).
correct. It would never make sense to make a new mold that contained the same exact dice for any race.

however under the right circumstances I might be willing to champion an idea like this in the back rooms of SFR....
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:18 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the idea of a Legend that "pops" like this. It'd be easily identifiable with the corresponding army, and would add the extra "Wow!" factor to the Legend.

I mean, they are meant to be paragons of the battlefield. They are the greatest champions, warriors and mages from folklore. People write songs and hold festivals in their honor. They oughta have some fancy dice, right?

Then they'd stand out, and even instill some "fear" or "awe" when looking at them.

I vote yes.
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Matthias Maccabeus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:20 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
Lets just call this a popular opinion poll.

What would you think if you have traditional goblins in an army with a die that looked like that but was still considered a goblin.


I'd be totally cool with it. I think that this game has a pretty steep learning curve (and I don't mean learning the game but learning the colors, SAIs, spells, etc) and part of that comes from making it hard to differentiate colors in the dice. I think the above swirled technique would go along way in helping with that. Would it look a bit different? Well, yes but I already have 3 Trolls that are all different looking now and only one of them looks Gold and Black.
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DarkKindness
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:21 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katsu wrote:
digitalsith wrote:
Those colors are without a doubt easier to identify. I know my Goblins don’t look gold and black, they look green and black. Is this a option for the future?


From what I've read around here. No. The dice we see in this thread are made via a different process/molds, and the method is not compatible with the existing Goblin molds. So short of making a new goblin mold for this style, which is most likely prohibitively expensive (as it doesn't add anything new product wise).


It sounds like this type of mold would be considerably cheaper to have made than the more traditional style, though, since the plates that make the impressions are more mix-and-match. For instance, you'd only need a single 1-maneuver face for all of the Commons of each race, and so on. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure that it'd still be prohibitively expensive, just less so.

Also, there's a lot to be said for renewing a product's image periodically, especially if a redesign is both attractive and functional... and can be kept compatible with previous products. The redesign of the faces of Magic cards is a good example of this, and using the different molding process could satisfy all of those criteria for Dragon Dice™. It's an interesting proposition.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:32 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
however under the right circumstances I might be willing to champion an idea like this in the back rooms of SFR....
Cliff I'm sure I know what you are thinking. Let's research and discuss....

Nothing to see, move along....
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:33 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
cliffwiggs wrote:
however under the right circumstances I might be willing to champion an idea like this in the back rooms of SFR....
Cliff I'm sure I know what you are thinking. Let's research and discuss....

Nothing to see, move along....


*squee* Very Happy
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:41 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
cliffwiggs wrote:
however under the right circumstances I might be willing to champion an idea like this in the back rooms of SFR....
Cliff I'm sure I know what you are thinking. Let's research and discuss....

Nothing to see, move along....
I thought you might. I'm gonna see if I can get someone on the phone. email is too slow for research.

I'm privately curious to see how many others do too...

I have a die (to be determined later) that I will hold a private drawing for. PM me if you have an idea of what I was referring too. If anyone posts it publicly then the contest is off... Twisted Evil
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Last edited by cliffwiggs on Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:56 pm GMT; edited 1 time in total
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DarkKindness
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:43 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, what sort of ideas are you looking for? I'm not about to miss an opportunity to contribute if I can!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:54 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarkKindness wrote:
Wait, what sort of ideas are you looking for? I'm not about to miss an opportunity to contribute if I can!


Chuck said he had an idea what I was 'thinking'. I want to know who else can guess it. (privately)
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