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Magic Discussion
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DialFforFunky
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:02 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

This makes me curious: what was the reason to restrict to 50% mages? I've got a feeling that it wasn't just about cantrips. Still, I like the idea of cantrips not combining during non-magic actions.


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piMaster
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:14 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The restriction is due to magic's power and versatility.
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sweetberlinetta
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:07 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

if we are doing away with magic doubling and talking about magicians being aloud to double magic than i would vote on only the rares being able too. because the way i look at the game the one pointers are like apprentices the uncommon's journeyman and the rares Craftsman so they would be the ones with all the experience. so what do you think
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:23 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

sweetberlinetta wrote:
if we are doing away with magic doubling and talking about magicians being aloud to double magic than i would vote on only the rares being able too. because the way i look at the game the one pointers are like apprentices the uncommon's journeyman and the rares Craftsman so they would be the ones with all the experience. so what do you think


I'd rather see doubling removed entirely.
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shoesan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:48 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add rather see all double or none. Exceptions only make the rules harder to remember.
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eggsaladsandwich
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:16 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put me down for : Only mages can double OR no doubling at all.
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:17 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

eggsaladsandwich wrote:
Put me down for : Only mages can double OR no doubling at all.


I get the idea, but I don't like the thought of having to check dice classes during a game.
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eggsaladsandwich
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:28 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would only happen when you rolled a mages ID. Should be pretty simple to remember what your mages look like eh?
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DialFforFunky
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:24 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those scalders all look alike... as do those frostwings by the way.

On the subject of frostwings: how would they be balanced out if everything/nothing was balanced? Seems like either change would drastically alter their performance, both relative to others when they themselves are casting, and when negating magic.


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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:28 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

eggsaladsandwich wrote:
Would only happen when you rolled a mages ID. Should be pretty simple to remember what your mages look like eh?


Sure, I remember what my mages look like, but I don't know what my opponent's mages look like. I can either take his word that those IDs are mages, or I need to inspect his dice to make sure. Then of course some of the IDs can be difficult to tell apart (like some of the SS dice, for example) if you're not familiar with the race.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:50 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are THAT concerned, then you are playing competitively and should be familiar with all the dice anyway...?
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:56 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
If you are THAT concerned, then you are playing competitively and should be familiar with all the dice anyway...?


So it's a player's responsibility to know all the dice, all the time?
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:58 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

stormywaters wrote:
cliffwiggs wrote:
If you are THAT concerned, then you are playing competitively and should be familiar with all the dice anyway...?


So it's a player's responsibility to know all the dice, all the time?


It is the players responsibility to have an opinion.

In a game, I can either count all your opponents rolls to make sure you aren't cheating or I can trust that you will count them correctly.

I don't see this as any different. You either choose to be familiar with your opponents dice or you choose to trust them.

(BTW - I'm actually against the rule we are discussing. I'm for either ALL dice or NO dice, I'm against mages only)
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Denimwizard
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:07 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Prfer to keep the doubling after all its what makes the terrain color matter. It would be like ripping that out of the game. Besides its doubling on ID icons which i a 17% chance for any dice.
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NMcCoy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:17 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vote for removing doubling, and making terrain matter in some other way (such as my major/minor spell proposal work-in-progress). Especially because it simplifies one particular trouble point in magic casting I see/experience a lot - "Okay, I have either 16 points of gold or 10 points of blue... I want to summon a gold dragon, that leaves me with... uh, hang on..."

Without doubling, it's just "I have 8 points of magic for anything on my spell list"*, or if mixing races "I have 6 Feral magic and 4 Treefolk magic, and I can use either for casting basic gold spells".

*"and I'm at a highlands so I can cast red major spells here," if going with my proposal
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Autpost
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:53 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to point out that magic doubling is only confusing in the way it is now. If it is linked to a terrain instead of a terrain color it would not be complicated at all:
So if LEs can double IDs for magic in highland terrain (and only in highland terrain) each LE-ID would produce twice as many magic: They can double red and black magic with their IDs if they are in highland. If a Necromancer has captured a highland Standing Stones, its ID generates 6 red, black or gold magic in any combination you want.
That means they will always have the same amount of red and black magic available and you do not have to keep track of different colors.
The only existing exception is if magic generating items are used: Here you will have more magic in one color. Stupid items.

It is also possible to remove the doubling magic rule from the general rules and move it into the Standing Stones Effect:
If Standing Stones are captured units may double their IDs for magic for all colors they can cast. (And they may cast additional colors as usual.)

Quote:
Without doubling, it's just "I have 8 points of magic for anything on my spell list"*, or if mixing races "I have 6 Feral magic and 4 Treefolk magic, and I can use either for casting basic gold spells".
Yes, this is the way as it should be:
You still have to distinguish: Which race has rolled how much magic, but nothing more. Currently you have to keep track of different colors also and you have to distinguish between SAI generated results (Cantrip) and non-SAI results.
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:59 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Autpost wrote:
So if LEs can double IDs for magic in highland terrain (and only in highland terrain) each LE-ID would produce twice as many magic: They can double red and black magic with their IDs if they are in highland. If a Necromancer has captured a highland Standing Stones, its ID generates 6 red, black or gold magic in any combination you want.


Then you have to start assigning terrains to every race that currently doesn't have one. You're also hurting strategies where, for instance, I want my Treefolk to use a Highland for red magic. So now, instead of doubling at least one color (and calling my other color), I get none of the benefits that another race would get.

I stand firm that doubling should just go. It's already confusing enough, and there are LOTS of ways that terrain can be used besides just magic doubling.
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NMcCoy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:32 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the notion that all IDs double at 8th-face standing stones (regardless of colors), and never in any other situation.
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piMaster
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:40 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then everyone would bring a Standing Stones unless magic's power was seriously cut down.
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:49 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. I vote no doubling, ever.
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