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Number of dice in a "complete" army?
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mst3k4ever
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:44 pm GMT    Post subject: Number of dice in a "complete" army? Reply with quote

From what I gather, people seem to consider 2 - rare, 4 - uncommon, 8 - common of each type (so, 10 rare, 20 uncommon, 40 common), 2 of each common monster, and 1 of each rare monster to be a "complete" army. Is there any particular reason for that? I can't see anything about it in the rules vis-a-vis limits on how many of any one die a person can use (just the amount of magic-using dice). And the amount seems excessive for 36-point games (or even 60-point games), since that adds up to 120+ points. Is it just for flexibility?
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:30 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know anyone that considers that a complete army. However, that is about right for a player's set of each race. In other words, that is how much most people collect in order to play.
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mst3k4ever
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:40 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
I don't know anyone that considers that a complete army. However, that is about right for a player's set of each race. In other words, that is how much most people collect in order to play.


Heh. On your dice for sale page, you call that amount a "complete set". Is there a difference between "set" and "army"? I didn't mean army to be fielded in a game -- my bad if that was unclear.

My question is, why those numbers? Are there strategies that call for 8 commons in particular (or any other "complete set" number)? Does it just provide for what people consider optimal flexibility?

I don't have a lot of direct experience with DD, so I'm asking out of curiosity.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:55 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just provides for optimal flexibility. You can field just about any reasonable army. Now if you want to have 60 Pelters for a Battlefest army (don't laugh, it's been done), then this isn't enough. But that's a rather weird case, and this will let you make most any army that normally is used in play.
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mst3k4ever
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:17 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I have to "cube" collectible games in order to play them (that is, in effect create a closed system/complete game) due to my gaming partners being almost entirely good-natured non-gamers, I had already mentally organized my collection around obtaining a "half set" of a bunch of races.

So, 1 rare, 2 uncommon, 4 common of each type, plus 1 of each monster (with duplicates acceptable where rare ones cannot be found, so that the total number of monsters works out). This is plenty of points to construct a varied 36-health army (and can make 60, though that is likely too large for my needs anyway).

However, I guess I might be under-representing magic units? I would only have a baseline of 11-health "pure" magic, right?

Hmm.
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Urfaes
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:17 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

mst3k4ever wrote:
However, I guess I might be under-representing magic units? I would only have a baseline of 11-health "pure" magic, right?

Perhaps. I've gotten by with 6-12 health worth of magic in my armies; it seems "conventional" armies use half their health in magic, 18 in a 36 point game. Cantrip can provide functionality outside the magic phase, so having two or three rare magic units in a collection seems to be "standard".
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mst3k4ever
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:57 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urfaes wrote:
Perhaps. I've gotten by with 6-12 health worth of magic in my armies; it seems "conventional" armies use half their health in magic, 18 in a 36 point game. Cantrip can provide functionality outside the magic phase, so having two or three rare magic units in a collection seems to be "standard".


Heh. So naturally, the first thing I did was trade away my "extra" Liches. Embarassed
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Urfaes
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:12 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

mst3k4ever wrote:
Heh. So naturally, the first thing I did was trade away my "extra" Liches. Embarassed

You should be fine; if you've got a Vampire or two, Convert is pretty fun. If you could secure even one more Lich, I'm sure your collection would be "complete."

Our hoarding methods for myself and my wife are defined by container. We use bead organizers from Michael's. They hold 8 rare, 8 uncommon with 4 commons on the side and up to 12 commons. We fill the slots and trade or give away the rest. They're similar to the Bead Landing Medium Bead Box.

I work on an army until it's filled then focus on another army. Small, portable and organized. For a Highlander format, I can pull a die from each slot and call it good.
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mst3k4ever
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:22 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urfaes wrote:
You should be fine; if you've got a Vampire or two, Convert is pretty fun. If you could secure even one more Lich, I'm sure your collection would be "complete."

Our hoarding methods for myself and my wife are defined by container. We use bead organizers from Michael's. They hold 8 rare, 8 uncommon with 4 commons on the side and up to 12 commons. We fill the slots and trade or give away the rest. They're similar to the Bead Landing Medium Bead Box.

I work on an army until it's filled then focus on another army. Small, portable and organized. For a Highlander format, I can pull a die from each slot and call it good.


I use the same bead containers. Smile But I am not sorting by what fits, I was sticking to my formula. I found that I can get four or five races per container if I split the d10s off into their own small cubbies. I am currently working on seven (eight...I just won an auction for some Treefolk). With dragons, items, and terrain, that's two full containers.
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Urfaes
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:29 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

mst3k4ever wrote:
I found that I can get four or five races per container if I split the d10s off into their own small cubbies. I am currently working on seven (eight...I just won an auction for some Treefolk). With dragons, items, and terrain, that's two full containers.

I do about the same thing. Smile

I split each "category" of a race into its own section. The monsters are in the top row, but I'll double them or have an empty if I don't have the fifth monster. That's where I fill in two terrain dice and dragons, or I'll spread them amongst the monsters to make room for a Dragon Lord and magic items.

I might borrow your idea once I have solidified army lists; at least then I'd have all my "forces" arrayed in one container instead of spread across one per race.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:46 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 'players set' is at least 18 health of all but the most rare dice.

so I have 18 of each common, 9 of each uncommon, 6 of each rare, 4 of each monster.

That is what gives me the maximum flexibility to play most any 36 health army I want.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:08 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
Now if you want to have 60 Pelters for a Battlefest army (don't laugh, it's been done), then this isn't enough. But that's a rather weird case...


And he can field five of those armies at a time, too. Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:13 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddicerc wrote:
chuckpint wrote:
Now if you want to have 60 Pelters for a Battlefest army (don't laugh, it's been done), then this isn't enough. But that's a rather weird case...


And he can field five of those armies at a time, too. Mr. Green


I can do it with elf misprints, but I don't.

and for those who had the bad experience of playing me. I doubt I'll be playing all common for battlefest again and definitely not all common mages. It takes way too long to count out results.
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mst3k4ever
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:29 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, 185 dice per race? That seems like a lot... Smile

cliffwiggs wrote:
My 'players set' is at least 18 health of all but the most rare dice.

so I have 18 of each common, 9 of each uncommon, 6 of each rare, 4 of each monster.

That is what gives me the maximum flexibility to play most any 36 health army I want.
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Matthias Maccabeus
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:51 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
ddicerc wrote:
chuckpint wrote:
Now if you want to have 60 Pelters for a Battlefest army (don't laugh, it's been done), then this isn't enough. But that's a rather weird case...


And he can field five of those armies at a time, too. Mr. Green


I can do it with elf misprints, but I don't.

and for those who had the bad experience of playing me. I doubt I'll be playing all common for battlefest again and definitely not all common mages. It takes way too long to count out results.


I actually enjoy playing against you in battlefest. It's fun to watch you try and roll all those bad boys!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:20 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:

so I have 18 of each common, 9 of each uncommon, 6 of each rare, 4 of each monster.


Shouldn't that be 4 and a half of each monster? Smile

Haha... just kidding. But that is exactly why I collect 12 health of each... so the math comes out right for C, U, R AND monster!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:38 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:


and for those who had the bad experience of playing me. I doubt I'll be playing all common for battlefest again and definitely not all common mages. It takes way too long to count out results.


Thank the maker!

Matthias Maccabeus wrote:
I actually enjoy playing against you in battlefest. It's fun to watch you try and roll all those bad boys!


Wasn't fun for me. I was his first opponent, and he went first. It took so long for him to count and figure out what he was doing, I literally got my first turn over 20 minutes into the match. I don't think I even got 5 total turns before time was up, and I made my moves very quickly. I think he started to somewhat figure it out for the next couple of matches, but that first one was brutal.

It was a cool idea to try in a friendly game on the side, but not really a good one for a timed tournament. The sheer number of possibilities with spending magic was crazy... but not really in a good way. Having so many different casters meant a lot of magic, but not enough in one color to accomplish real objectives in a 60 point game. Trying to figure out how to effectively use 10 of this color, and 8 of that color, and 7 of another, and 11 of yet another... but wait, I could change these 3 to this other color... etc., it was insane. Maybe with a lot of practice, you could come up with decent gameplans with an army like that, but it sure would take a lot of practice. You would need to develop specific strategies that capitalized on using a wide variety of spells, understanding you wouldn't be able to count on many castings of any specific spell.
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Matthias Maccabeus
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:57 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I can see that being annoying when coming too magic. Our was just a straight up race to 2 8. I had tons of Cavalry and so did he if I remember correctly.


I know in our game. You had that grove and I forgot what I had (City maybe?), but it was just a magic (or lack of) back and forth with neither of us doing much to the other til time was called.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:26 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, in our game, I made the mistake of taking the frontier 8 instead of sending my troops to where you were. My army wanted to fight, but I couldn't say no to the 8.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:03 am GMT    Post subject: Number of dice in a "complete" army? Reply with quote

There is another thread (or 2) on the forum about what the perfect sized collection is. For me, I would eventually like to have a collection similar to Cliff's, but for now I have a 'demo' set that I use to show off the game and allow new players/collectors to try out almost every die in the game. My demo set is 2 (r), 3 (u), 6 (c), 1 (m) in each class, in each race. I have all of the expansion dice represented (Magic Items, Artifacts, Hybrid Dragons, Acolytes, Dragonkin and even a King's die). I carry this set around in a fishing tackle box (on a small hand-truck). I think the 'demo' set is a practical one that could be achieved fairly easily (although it might take a little time and luck to acquire the Ormyrr, Magi, Ogre, Inferno, Unseelie Faerie, but it'll be worth it). Laughing I use it at shows to demonstrate the diversity and the many options available for all kinds of play-styles.
I hope this helps,
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