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Daemon Diceâ„¢ Demo Mat
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:23 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

We might want to add another box for "Destroyed" for items. And perhaps subdivide the stunned to show parts and items that need 2 pluses to bring back vs. the normal stuns that only need 1 plus.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:31 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the suggestion for stuns, both items and frost can be harder to keep track of (specially in a multi-player game)

Not sure if we need a separate one for destroyed items. The only time it would make a difference is the potion and it's a lot of space to put aside just for that.
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Dolus
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:19 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
I like the suggestion for stuns, both items and frost can be harder to keep track of (specially in a multi-player game)


Specifically a multi-player game. Maybe items will change this? But right now for body parts, either your a frost daemon who can deal frost damage and frost damage only, or you're not a frost daemon and you can't deal frost damage.

But yes, it is a big problem for multiplayer games. Razz
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:46 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
We might want to add another box for "Destroyed" for items. And perhaps subdivide the stunned to show parts and items that need 2 pluses to bring back vs. the normal stuns that only need 1 plus.
As I was doing this, I realized that if we do 'destroyed', then we are making the mat for the expansion and its original intention was for demos...

Also for demo's, I'm not sure if we want to do breed abilities or not. I'm gonna hold off on updating the playmat until those items are thought through.
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DEEPBLUEB2
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:21 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

After the basic design has been ironed out,
I think it would be cool to have a dungeon stone version. (floor plan)
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Dolus
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:59 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

For demo's, it makes sense to ignore breed abilities.

But for the record, I created two daemons and played myself without breed abilities, and never made progress. Razz I always managed to recover everything lost over time. Either I was too defensive, or the lack of breed abilities prevented a furthering of the game.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:06 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dolus wrote:
For demo's, it makes sense to ignore breed abilities.

But for the record, I created two daemons and played myself without breed abilities, and never made progress. Razz I always managed to recover everything lost over time. Either I was too defensive, or the lack of breed abilities prevented a furthering of the game.
Can you give me the exact makeup of the two daemons?
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Dolus
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:14 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
Dolus wrote:
For demo's, it makes sense to ignore breed abilities.

But for the record, I created two daemons and played myself without breed abilities, and never made progress. Razz I always managed to recover everything lost over time. Either I was too defensive, or the lack of breed abilities prevented a furthering of the game.
Can you give me the exact makeup of the two daemons?


Daemon 1
Mouth
Mouth
Shell
Shell
Arm
Arm
Tail
Lungs
Lungs
Spike
Eye
Eye
Eye


Daemon 2
Mouth
Mouth
Brain
Brain
Lungs
Lungs
Pincer
Pincer
Shell
Arm
Arm
Wings
Wings

Lots of pluses were used for recovering.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:20 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm, neither is ultra aggressive, but not ultra defensive either. how many rounds did you play?
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:53 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't keep track of the rounds. I would guess between 8 - 12? Maybe more?

I think at the most there were around 4 stunned body parts at any given time. But without wounding any or breed abilities, they were very easy to recover.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 10:03 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't usually run a demo to a full game, but its good to know how it would be and to demo with non-defensive monsters!
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wuxia
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:14 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Used the playmat for 4 games today. I like the way it is organized. It's very easy to "see" what goes where and helps with the flow.

I would caution against a dark or printed background for a demo mat. Maybe do all of that with an advanced or personalized mat. That would be really cool. But not for teaching. The KISS principle applies when its new, limited time, and noise like a convention or busy store.

Looking forward to showing this off to friends.
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wuxia
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:17 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Introduced this to some people. The playmat was very useful and was referenced a lot during play which gave them some independence in decision making.
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dburkley
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:03 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Braun used the playmat when he demoed the game to me at DEXCON 16. I've never seen, nor played this game, and I found the arrangement and icon descriptions very functional and useful. If the room is available, my only suggestion is to make the font larger for the icon descriptions.

Great stuff.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:16 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback Dan. I have a ton of things I'm trying to get ready prior to Gencon. This one isn't the top of the list, but I'll make something happen!
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Dolus
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:41 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless if I missed a rules change, the play may I'm looking at now doesn't mention that wings add to initiative.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:31 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

what URL are you using to get to the playmat?

it might be an older one.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:05 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
what URL are you using to get to the playmat?

it might be an older one.


We were playing with the playmats Dave brought to PAX Prime. I don't know which URL is associated with the one that was printed out, but the two linked to in this thread both don't specify that wings adds to initiative. It was probably the second URL because the playmat included symbols for the boxes.

cliffwiggs wrote:
I didn't get to review the rules, but I did update the demo mat. If you have a chance, try it out and let me know what you think. its intended to print on 11 by 17 paper.

http://www.sfr-inc.com/DemoMat_0.6b.pdf


cliffwiggs wrote:
I'm still not in love with this, but wanted to post it just to see what it would look like.

http://www.sfr-inc.com/DemoMat_0.7b.pdf

I know it needs some eye candy, but the artist I wanted to use is swamped, so it'll take some time for him to get to it.





But some other commentary to add, is I love the general layout of the playmat.

Having Grabbed directly across from Grabbing makes it very obvious what part is grabbing which part. And having grabbed, stunned, and wounded all in the right column makes it easy to explain and visually simple to say and think "Any dice not in this column here you can activate."

It was also great having attacking and defending be directly opposite each other such that you can match up the dice across playmats.

The big negative I had with the playmat was the part of setting aside minuses and spent dice. It gets confusing to have to think "Am I setting this aside because these dice are minused, or because these dice are minuses to my opponent?" It should be obvious which it is, but it's easy to make the mistake when setting dice aside, and frequently dice were placed in the wrong box.

My first thought on fixing this was to create more of a spacer between the two boxes. Like maybe swap the position of Turn Order with the Spent and Minused box. I didn't like this idea very much, but that brought me to another idea I had.

What if we put minuses between attacks and defenses? It might not be the ideal spot yet, but we can position it in the middle such that Attacks and Defenses are still opposite of each other. It moves the two boxes that were confusing far apart from each other, so it'll be easier to not make that mistake. And it also puts minuses right next to Attacks, so it will be easier to see and resolve correctly on the following players turn.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:55 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, yeah. those are both really old and I might even just remove the files.

But the ones that Dave brought should have the Wings counting for initiative. If not that was an oversight and I'll get it fixed.

As for putting dice in the wrong place. I had SO many people at Gencon try to mirror their opponent. So instead of each player putting their stuff 'to their left', one player would put his to his right to mirror his opponent.

i don't understand that. what game does that?

Anyway, yes there is a confusion between minus-ing and minus-ed and spent dice. i think its just a learning curve because once you get past your first game, its easy
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Warboss Walton
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:33 pm GMT    Post subject: My take on the playmat Reply with quote

I absolutely love the playmat and can't fathom playing this game without it. I did make some modifications though. I don't have access to a large enough printer to do the 11x17, so I scaled it down for two 8x11 sheets (so just slightly) and added the box art to the different regions!

Enjoy!

Full mat: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByJ6aspUZ2VOTXVpdmpRWWlNUlE/edit?usp=sharing

Left half: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByJ6aspUZ2VOQmlKcVN0LUh6WFU/edit?usp=sharing

Right half: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByJ6aspUZ2VOcVdkS2lrQnV3aVU/edit?usp=sharing

I printed the two halves on card stock and then tucked them into plastic sheet protectors. Tape those together and ta da! Easy playmat.
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