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Daemon Diceā„¢ Rules 0.8b
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:20 pm GMT    Post subject: Daemon Diceā„¢ Rules 0.8b Reply with quote

I know the 'Brain' item is still under discussion, but here is the wording the way I proposed it. Seems simple and straight forward. I started to write it up to exclude the spikes, but this still seems cleaner.

I'm also releasing a draft of the Booster rules (i.e. more races). I don't like the timing issue of the Blood and Fester abilities, but it seemed the most direct way to address it.

I will work on formatting and tweaking the expansion rules for the items next...

http://www.sfr-inc.com/DaemonDiceStarter_0.8b.pdf
http://www.sfr-inc.com/DaemonDiceBoosters_0.8b.pdf

Adding the expansion rules:
http://www.sfr-inc.com/DaemonDiceExpansion_0.8b.pdf
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Last edited by cliffwiggs on Wed May 08, 2013 2:17 pm GMT; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:29 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking for input on the Wraith daemon (ie this replaced Lash).

The original intent was a daemon that could not lose via minuses by having one piece always remaining to roll. That's obviously not the way it ended up worded and in hind sight I wonder if that original concept was too strong. However, is the current incarnation too weak?
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:36 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
piMaster wrote:
1) I would say assign the damage from the original attack, but any additions are not guided.
Pi, any reasoning behind this that could help sway me one way or the other?

preamble: IMO you shouldn't be able to spike a brain-guided attack.
One, the brain guides the attack of one die (you place the brain behind the attacking die).
Two, I think it might be too powerful to allow one brain to assign that much damage (wound damage at that).
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:42 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blood daemon ability: looks like you changed it. If I read it correctly, no matter how many wounds a blood fiend inflicts, it can only recover one die?
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:36 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

piMaster wrote:
Blood daemon ability: looks like you changed it. If I read it correctly, no matter how many wounds a blood fiend inflicts, it can only recover one die?
Not on purpose and yet on purpose too. As I was reading it yesterday I had the assumption it was just one die per turn. So I reworded it to be so.

However, I just read the old threads and I don't see anything that proves it was intended to be just one or more than one.

So I guess the question becomes... Is a single die per turn too weak? Is a die per wound too strong?
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:45 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

piMaster wrote:

Two, I think it might be too powerful to allow one brain to assign that much damage (wound damage at that).


To me the question becomes, would this make a brain/spike daemon prevalent in the game?

I can agree that it would be powerful to target that many wounds, particularly if its a spiked pincer. However, it also makes that one stacked attack harder to defend.

...

Let me ask a second question. Would you make it so that the Spike and Brain can't be played together or just that the Brain doesn't affect the Spike?

I'm not forgetting any other 'enhancing' dice am I? its just these two.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:57 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think just one die is good enough. If we let it stack, it could get ridiculously powerful. Of course, we could playtest the idea. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:45 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
Looking for input on the Wraith daemon (ie this replaced Lash).

[...] is the current incarnation too weak?


It certainly strikes me as the weakest ability so far. Perhaps give it the choice between ignoring a minus or one automatic dodge?

And a small question: does a fester stinger that stings generate a stun as well? (I suppose not, as the wound damage isn't suffered).


F
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:21 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

DialFforFunky wrote:

And a small question: does a fester stinger that stings generate a stun as well? (I suppose not, as the wound damage isn't suffered).
Thats a good point. I need to reword Fester so that a poison wound doesn't cause any damage.
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:50 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the Wraith ability, perhaps allow it to ignore one rolled minus result. That way it could ignore a Lung (2 minuses) or a Wing (targeted minus).
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:52 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddicerc wrote:
For the Wraith ability, perhaps allow it to ignore one rolled minus result. That way it could ignore a Lung (2 minuses) or a Wing (targeted minus).
My original was to ignore 2 minus results, but it was thought to be too powerful, so it was reduced to one...

we have time to tweak this one, it won't be printed quite as soon as the starter rules will be.
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:07 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note to self: didn't we change to avoid using Dodge, avoid, deflect? THis is still on some symbols (eye,tail,scythe)

Also, the Expansion rules are posted (in draft form). So Pi, you can point out any issues that they might introduce.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:57 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
DialFforFunky wrote:

And a small question: does a fester stinger that stings generate a stun as well? (I suppose not, as the wound damage isn't suffered).
Thats a good point. I need to reword Fester so that a poison wound doesn't cause any damage.
Speaking of Fester. I was talking with Miss Tiffany and she had an idea. Basically, it was to tweak Fester so that the stun had to go against the wounding die. This makes a lot of game sense to me. She also suggested that this auto-targeted attack couldn't be immediately recovered by a blood daemon (which I can easily do by making Blood resolve before Fester)

Anyone have feedback on this idea?
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:28 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
cliffwiggs wrote:
DialFforFunky wrote:

And a small question: does a fester stinger that stings generate a stun as well? (I suppose not, as the wound damage isn't suffered).
Thats a good point. I need to reword Fester so that a poison wound doesn't cause any damage.
Speaking of Fester. I was talking with Miss Tiffany and she had an idea. Basically, it was to tweak Fester so that the stun had to go against the wounding die.


Very thematic and I do like it. Probably worth doing some testing, but I like how it sounds, at least.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:42 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

That works for body parts, but will not work for items. Given that many of the items cause a wound, it's a major problem.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:58 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
That works for body parts, but will not work for items. Given that many of the items cause a wound, it's a major problem.


I suggested this knowing that items causes more wounds.

Please explain why this is a problem.

There are two ways of looking at it this ability.

1) Fester is Acid and auto-targets. If you poke it with sword, then that sword gets stunned (dropped) and can be picked up by two pluses. This provides a second way to stun items (the other being the brain). Against a weapon light foe, this targets their 'strongest' pieces directly.

2) Fester is an infection and only affects body parts. The foe gets to decide which body part to throw in front of the junk flying towards them. Against a weapon heavy foe, this targets what keeps them alive and can end the game quickly.

In neither case does the Fester daemon get a choice. You are either auto targeting a die, or allowing the foe to pick a body part. I can easily see either approach to the ability.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 2:13 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know why I didn't see this earlier. The starting text uses "devilish race". Anyone that has played D&D knows that Demons and Devils are very different races. And it's not a race, but a breed. So it should say "daemonish breed".

Brain: if we are allowing multiple dice to be affected instead of only a single die, then we should not allow a Spike to be added to a Brain-guided attack.

Eye: "A daemon's Eye shoots a ray that causes one stun damage and any plues added to it are doubled! The ray cannot be blocked, but enough dodges or deflects can defend against it."

Tail: use same as the last sentence above.

Fester: I simply think that the ability should only work against body parts. While it's tougher to bring back items, losing an item only really affects your attacks. Losing a body part means you are closer to defeat. Also getting a stun against a body part is confusing. For example, which is stunned if it suffers a wound from a Spiked Arm? The Arm or the Spike? I'm sure you and I would agree that the Spike is stunned, but SDA could argue that it's the Arm.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:19 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
Don't know why I didn't see this earlier. The starting text uses "devilish race". Anyone that has played D&D knows that Demons and Devils are very different races. And it's not a race, but a breed. So it should say "daemonish breed".
Microsoft does NOT like the word daemonish...

Quote:

Brain: if we are allowing multiple dice to be affected instead of only a single die, then we should not allow a Spike to be added to a Brain-guided attack.

Brain: A Brain allows an attack to be targeted. Place the Brain behind the attacking die; if the attack is not defended, the attacker decides which dice suffer the damage prior to untargeted damage being suffered. The attack cannot be supplemented to cause additional damage (example: Spike).

Quote:

Eye: "A daemon's Eye shoots a ray that causes one stun damage and any plues added to it are doubled! The ray cannot be blocked, but enough dodges or deflects can defend against it."

Tail: use same as the last sentence above.
several use that phrase. I see two changes. I'm saying them out loud to see how they sound.

Quote:

Fester: I simply think that the ability should only work against body parts. While it's tougher to bring back items, losing an item only really affects your attacks. Losing a body part means you are closer to defeat. Also getting a stun against a body part is confusing. For example, which is stunned if it suffers a wound from a Spiked Arm? The Arm or the Spike? I'm sure you and I would agree that the Spike is stunned, but SDA could argue that it's the Arm.
oh SDA... Let me think about it while I make the other changes. BTW - the other breed abilities that have been questioned are blood and wraith.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:40 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm fine with the Blood just recovering one die. That's in line with most of the other breeds. However, since it first has to actually get a Wound to go through, it does weaken it quite a bit. I'm not sure I want to put an limit on it other than 1, it seems too arbitrary. The original was that a Blood Mouth recovered 2 not the normal 1. I understand we wanted to move away from making that one body part too powerful. How about going 180 from this and saying that for each Wound it causes an additional Stun (as it sucks blood from the other daemon)?

As far as the Wraith, I think it should allow you avoid any one minus. I think that minus is one of the more powerful things in the game. There is no defense against them, and they prevent you from rolling some dice, which means other attacks are more likely to get through and you also may have less offense. I've seen more games won because of minuses than by someone taking out all the body parts. So this one is fine by me.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:39 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify, Wraith is a -1 to the minuses, not allowing one die to slip though. So a Wraith can still lose due to minuses. It is just one result harder to do.

On Blood, I was leaning towards putting it back to one per wound with no limit. I'd rather not limit it...

For the suggestion of an extra stun per wound... that sounds like a bruiser ability (ie a potential new breed someday).

When I redid all the breeds it was to spread out the breeds among different game mechanics. So changing this would mean that there is no breed which has a recover type ability.

it is food for thought...
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