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Daemon Diceā„¢ Rules 1.0b
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:47 am GMT    Post subject: Daemon Diceā„¢ Rules 1.0b Reply with quote

This is it!

Proof read it for punctuation, spelling, rules, etc. Grammar we might have to discuss, somethings are worded a certain way on purpose or because a word is being used as a game term.

There have been several small tweaks here and there to account for some obscure situations. Some examples are...
-reintroduction of the weenie rule (ie you can choose to ignore some dice results)
-allowing for a stinger/dart to be recovered and used a second time (doing poison a second time, possibly in conjunction with the first)
-making sure poison is an effect, not an attack and doesn't trigger breed powers.
-etc.

http://www.sfr-inc.com/DaemonDiceStarter_1.0b.pdf
http://www.sfr-inc.com/DaemonDiceBoosters_1.0b.pdf
http://www.sfr-inc.com/DaemonDiceExpansion_1.0b.pdf

The only item that I'm still uncomfortable with is the Wraith, so I need to do some more playtesting.

I am open to starting multiple online games with full rules and full dice.
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AC
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:24 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the ground-level stuff, since I have no qualms about being identified as a jerk and since I find errors irksome. I'll try to be easy about structure and phrasing, since I understand that it's written in a casual tone.

Under Winning the Game: First sentence: "Its" (possessive) should be "It's" (contraction).

Under Losing the Game: First sentence: For "at least one body part or suffers damage" I recommend "at least one body part or it suffers damage" to return to the subject of previous pronoun ("A daemon") and not confuse with last subject introduced ("its player"). It shouldn't matter, but there are those people out there. Again, it remains casual phrasing, but a little sharper than before.

Under The Seven Symbols: Plus: Second sentence: I'd recommend putting a comma after the word "attack" for clarity. To you and me the clause distinction is clear, but some people might read it in run-on fashion and see "making it . . ." as an adjective phrase modifying "attack."

(To get an idea of what I mean, consider: He departed from the road running under the tracks means the road goes under the tracks, whereas He departed from the road, running under the tracks means that he ran under the tracks and the road did not.)

Same: Wound: First sentence: I understand that "at this time" is used because it will not be until expansion materials are released that a Wound can be recovered, but it's apt to raise questions. Would it be too much to introduce a term distinct from "Recover" that would apply to Wounds? This sentence would then simply say ". . . and cannot be recovered." Potion (or whatever it is) would then indicate that it "restores" (or whatever) Wounded body parts during the Recover step (if that is indeed when it happens). Or maybe I'm making too much of it (boy, could that statement apply to this whole post of mine).

Under Sequence of Play: 1. Roll: c. Roll dice: I would recommend switching the second and third sentences in the interests of logical flow. You could even attach the third sentence to the first as an independent idea separated by a semi-colon, as: "Roll all your remaining active dice; the rolled symbols are the effects your daemon can take this turn." And then you indicate what happens if there is nothing to roll, rather than sort of jumping back and forth.

Under Body Part Symbols: Brain: Third (last) sentence: Assuming the attack can still be boosted with pluses and just not with other faces, maybe phrase it to specify that. For example: "The attack can be supplemented only by pluses and not by other faces (for example, Spike)." This, again, only if this is true. I'm not sure what the rule is.

Same: Mouth: Second sentence: Should read "victim's" (possessive).

Same: Stinger and Tentacle: Third and second sentences, respectively: Comma inside the quotation marks in America. I know, I know, we only do it because it's what we decided to do a couple hundred years ago. Still, it's standard in professional editing.

Same: Tentacle and Wings: First and second sentences, respectively: "[Y]our choice of the foe's dice" could be rephrased to more clearly than it does suggest that it impacts a single die only. There is no way to do this that keeps it brief, unfortunately. You could try "Each Tentacle grabs a single die of your choice from a foe's daemon." (Does "foe" refer to the daemon or the player? I mean, you could drop the "foe" part altogether on the assumption no one is going to have his daemon grab himself. Ahem.) And "During your [or a] foe's next turn, apply this minus to a single die of your choice [from the acting foe/daemon] prior to the application of non-targeted minuses!"

Under New challenges approach!: First sentence: Should read "their foes' breeding pits" (plural possessive).

I acknowledge that my own phrasing was a little rough in places. Ideally the meaning was nonetheless conveyed. I don't think like a lawyer and so don't have a natural eye for finding ways people might exploit phrasing, so my attempts at preventing such may be inaccurate or even insufficient. (Back when I would playtest projects, I would often try to get one dishonest person in the group to see how someone might try to cheat -- the person never knew that's why he was there of course!) I tried to refrain from being too picky about punctuation and things like the dreaded singular "they" -- for example not mentioning the semi-colon in the intro that should be a colon or an emdash.

All in all swell. Keep up the good work. The people need more games!
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:26 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

AC, don't worry about being seen as a Jerk. I asked for input and you gave it in spades! now if you bring the point up again and again after I choose not to implement it, that would be jerkish.

The rules are being redone into a print ready format (because an MS word baseed PDF just doesn't cut it), so I'll leave it to Mr.Editor to include these into his format Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:49 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of it was terribly important, of course. Only the apostrophes are real corrections. The rest is largely a matter of aesthetics or extreme clarity (the only item about which I would feel strongly would be the "Sequence of Play - Roll Dice" suggestion). Over the last few years I've gotten into the habit of trying to make sure that every written and spoken word for public consumption leaves as little room for confusion as possible, as in my professional life (such as it is) I am consistently interacting with rather obtuse or even slow types (by which I do not mean people who are in any technical way "challenged," but rather young bureaucrats and federal contractors).
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:30 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that occurs to me as we play our forum game is that the rot ability may be a bit too powerful.

Before the change in the rot's timing, the rot player chose the die but not the player (it was whoever attacked the rot). Now that the timing has been changed, the rot chooses the player and the die. Since wounded dice are pretty hard to recover, this pushes the rot ability above any of the others in terms of power (IMO).

I'm thinking this is the reason no one was attacking Cliff - once he had a turn, any stunned die of his choosing could be immediately and forever taken out of the game and there is nothing they could do about it.

Perhaps change the rot ability so that the targeted player chooses the die that gets wounded? Or perhaps give a way for it to resist the rotting attempt?
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:45 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll go with the targeted player getting to pick. Not because the Rot ability is too powerful, but because it's more consistent that the targeted player gets to pick the targeted die. With the exception of Brain-guided attacks and Wings (which are clearly very special cases) everything else lets the targeted player pick.
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First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).


Last edited by chuckpint on Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:25 am GMT; edited 1 time in total
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:47 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

So something like this?


Rot daemon (Black plastic/red ink): No one is as skilled in the
art of decay as the rot daemons who have turned it into a science!
At the end of each of the rot daemon's turns, the targeted daemon must select a body part from its stun pool and make it rot, turning it into a wounded die!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:20 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've posted a new version. I've put (most) of AC's suggestions into this version. I've also updated the Rot ability. I will be trying to put this into its final format on Sunday. I hope to release this to the printer the second week of July (8 or 9). So please check it carefully.

http://www.sfr-inc.com/DaemonDiceStarter_1.0c.pdf
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:23 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the rules setup for final printing. Note there is a lot of white space at the end of each page. We don't have to fill it, but if there was something left out due to space, we have some room.

http://www.sfr-inc.com/DaemonDiceRules.pdf
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First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:12 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

These will be b&w, I assume? An image is always a nice filler, but few translate to b&w well.

otherwise it looks awesome to me!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:34 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd prefer B&W. Color would possible but cost a lot more.

I was thinking to expanding the credits at the end. Cliff, I think you know what I'm talking about.

Heck we could put some credits on the front. As in the credit to Lester and Tim.
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First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:23 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

yup, either one would work. or url's or more of something...
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:51 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote


Quote:


Here's the rules setup for final printing. Note there is a lot of white space at the end of each page. We don't have to fill it, but if there was something left out due to space, we have some room.

http://www.sfr-inc.com/DaemonDiceRules.pdf


The stinger looks squashed...
maybe check that...
it could have been acccidentally changed.

it should be a circle.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:19 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rules updated in place. Fixed EPS symbols (default was fit frame, changed to fit frame proportionately). Updated credits, looking for comments on those.

File updated in place...
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:03 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

only comments on the credits is a quesiton.

does it seem strange to put them in two places rather than just filling up the back space with both parts?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:29 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just realized its probably too late, but the two artists didn't get mentioned in the rules. Both Jeremy and Bradley are missing.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:02 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not too late, but my brain has been stunned....

Please tell me the exact text, and whether or not you want that on the front or back.
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First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:09 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would have to go on the back. I think between Graphic and Typesetting.

Something like:

Logo Design:Bradley K. McDevitt
Box Artwork:Jeremy McHugh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:03 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to also add "Playtesting".

Chief Playtesters: Cliff Wiggs, Chuck Pint, Paul Pint
Playtesters: SFR Forum users, PAX East, Troop 3, Troop 79, Troop C412.

Anyone else?
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:50 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

we've played a few times here and there, but nothing worth documenting.
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