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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:41 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops, uploaded a slightly older version. Correct one is up there now.

If it's not clear on the shell that two shells together deflect a boost of 3, what do you think I should change? Best I can think of is: "Shell: A daemon’s Shell is a deflect with one built-in boost. This can be boosted with pluses or deflects, including Shells (which would boost by 2)."
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:26 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

we could edit this thing forever, but eventually we do need to print.

chuckpint wrote:
Fixed mix-up between terms Boost and Pluses. Attacks and Defenses are Boosted with Pluses.
in light of this, are you happy with the way eye is worded? or would it be better to say something like "and any pluses added to it count as two boosts" or "and any pluses added boost double' or 'boost twice'?

Also, is it also consistent to get rid of the term 'Stun Attack' in preference for 'attack that does stun damage'? i.e. Stun is the damage, not the attack?

arm,eye,leg,pincer,tail are worded one way
stun,wound,mouth,stinger are worded the other (bad?) way
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:11 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I'll fix. But I gotta get this printed and out. I'll have all the dice, boxes, and hangers ready by Sunday. If I print this on Monday, I can get this started on Tuesday.

Editing now. I'll post when I have those updates in the document.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:46 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, updated in place. Besides the "stun attack" change, I also changed Plus and Wound, to make it more clear that Pluses can't bring back wounded dice. I also made a change to Frost's power. I wanted to cut off an interaction between Rot and Frost. Should be clear when you see it.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:52 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read over those changes and they look good. A little more clarity never hurt anyone.

Now go print it before I start reading it again, so we can get it to Aldo, so we can get paid, so we can release the next set...
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:58 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've collected all the comments into this one document for final review.

Note: I included Frost and Rot so we can list all 8 together, but they can't change.

Steve, Wanna take your hand at writing something for the initial flavor text better than my one sentence?

Is the Blood/Fester exclusion worded appropriately?

Ultimately this should be the same size as the Dragon Diceâ„¢ booster rule sheets (front and back). If it must be bigger, then we could add something to advertise the expansion concept.

if your browser is going to cache this, make sure the date on the last line of the document is 20140418

http://www.sfr-inc.com/daemondice/DaemonDiceBoosters.pdf
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:29 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you have the Blood/Fester timing backwards. We were going to follow the sequence of play to resolve timing issues. So Recover would happen before Suffer.

I like how the Fire is completely negated by the Frost power. Not sure we planned that, but it works. Now the question is: does the Wraith power completely negate the Death power?

Stench: I'd add at the end of last sentence: "during the Suffer Stuns & Wounds phase".

Wraith: It sounds like (but is not completely clear) that the Wraith player gets to pick which minus is ignored. Also note: the way it's worded, it would completely negate a Lung.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:48 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
I think you have the Blood/Fester timing backwards. We were going to follow the sequence of play to resolve timing issues. So Recover would happen before Suffer.


We talked about this a lot and this is the way that we intended it and put wording into the starter to support it. We wanted a simple unambiguous rule and we came up with
Quote:
If two effects occur at the same instant (example: a Mouth and Stinger), then apply them in player turn and “Sequence of Play” order (example: “Recover Stuns” then “Suffer Stuns & Wounds”)
Player order and THEN Sequence order.

Thus in the Fester vs Blood timing. It is the Fester daemons turn (ex. he's suffering a Pincer), then The Fester resolves first as its his turn. I think that this could be made a Note or even just repeat the quote above like I did the scaling abilities and give a different example. In this case Blood negates Fester.

On the flipside If we gave an ability to an Item that during the Blood Players turn could wound the Fester player (like maybe a buckler bash), then the Blood player would resolve first and we could put THAT example into those rules. That would make the current example incorrect.

So 1st, we have to agree that the starter text is correct it can't be changed. 2nd, the result of this example is right, but it needs to be tweaked to show it is the fester players turn. That allows us to put the other example into the expansion rules.

Quote:

I like how the Fire is completely negated by the Frost power. Not sure we planned that, but it works. Now the question is: does the Wraith power completely negate the Death power?
We did not do that on purpose, but isn't it cool? Wraith specifically calls out a die, so that could not be used to cancel out Death's power (which comes from an ability and not a die)

Quote:

Stench: I'd add at the end of last sentence: "during the Suffer Stuns & Wounds phase".


Changed and updated in place. V1.0.2

Quote:

Wraith: It sounds like (but is not completely clear) that the Wraith player gets to pick which minus is ignored. Also note: the way it's worded, it would completely negate a Lung.


I can add 'of it's choice' to make it more clear. Added in place, see how you like it.

and yes, the intention is that it could negate a lung or a bellow. It was a way to power it up a little w/o making it two minuses. I'll add that to the description too.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 7:52 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to get this finished soon. I hope to take this over to Shore next Tuesday to start packaging Fester. Also, I'll reformat it, but it all has to fit on two sides of a 3" x 5" sheet. Yes, I found paper precut to that size and I'm going to use it for boosters rules.

Steve, if you could throw a little flavor text at the beginning, that would be great.
http://www.sfr-inc.com/daemondice/DaemonDiceBoosters.pdf

I'll update the date and version when I'm done reformatting.
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Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:57 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 by 5? wow, seems like a lot of text for something that small. Looking forward to seeing it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:18 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some flavor text, Cliff. I used "pits of Gehenna" because that's what I called them in "The Chronicles of Sheol," but you can change it to something more generic.
-----
In the halls of Hell, the daemon lords continue their battles for supremacy. Looking for any advantage they can find, they scavenge parts from new, powerful breeds of daemons to send into the Infernal Arena. Festering boils, searing flames, foul stenches, and other new features start to appear on the nightmarish warriors of the Arena. These new breeds also lead to the creation of a wide variety of half-breeds and even mongrel daemons, with their own hybrid strengths. Now you too can pick through the pits of Gehenna for new breeds of daemons to power your own chthonic creations.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:33 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck, as you do the layout of the rules let us know if this all fits or if you need it slightly smaller.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:49 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made it all fit (i.e. some of the fonts are a bit small). I found some 3" x 5" paper and while both my printers said they could handle that small a paper size, they can't when it's thin paper. So I when to a local print shop to print 5,000 copies. Cost $148.92 (or about 3 cents a sheet).

Fester will get packaged up in mid-July when I get back from Boy Scout summer camp. That will be about a month before GenCon. Do we want to put it up for pre-order then?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:56 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:

Fester will get packaged up in mid-July when I get back from Boy Scout summer camp. That will be about a month before GenCon. Do we want to put it up for pre-order then?


Yeah, that would be a good idea. Someone will have to remind me.

Since we don't have official floor rules, we could choose to make it legal at our one constructed event (which is probably gonna be chuck vs me Twisted Evil )
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:55 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I like how the Fire is completely negated by the Frost power.

Actually it isn't. Since Suffer Stuns & Wounds is a single step and both powers activate during it, you need to use the "tie breaker" rules to determine which activates first. Since it is the frost daemon's turn, the frost activates first, then fire is next.

So, fire could cancel out frost's effect, but frost cannot cancel out fire's effect.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:36 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have to look at the timing, but that comment might've been about the previous version of Frost.

However, either way you are correct about the timing and while we tried to catch and be explicit about these types of things, the generic rule being in the starter was to catch the ones we missed.

I've always expected one was slightly strong than the other (when against each other).

Just like Frost vs Rot, they aren't exactly equal.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:43 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

A question occurs regarding the interaction between Rot and Fester (because I know Cliff so enjoys my musings... Mr. Green ).

Say Rot goes thru his turn as normal and has some attacks arrayed against Fester. Rot activates his ability and causes one of Fester's stunned body parts to be wounded. This in turn causes Rot to immediately suffer a stun. Suppose this stun takes out Rot's last body part. Does that mean that Rot immediately loses or does he wait until his next turn? The rules give two specific spots to check for defeated daemons - roll and suffer damage. Rot's ability does not fall into either of these steps.

Suppose a similar situation as above, except Rot still has one body part that's not stunned/wounded, but it is being held by Fester's tentacle. It is possible that Rot's attacks could take out the tentacle and free his body part before his next turn starts, enabling Rot to stay in the game.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:41 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

piMaster wrote:
A question occurs regarding the interaction between Rot and Fester (because I know Cliff so enjoys my musings... Mr. Green ).
I do. It's a love/hate relationship, but it keeps me consistent. Today it's mostly a hate relationship...

So 'suffer' is in italics in the rulebook. This was meant to indicate that it must happen during that phase of the turn, but we never said that.

Thus Rot should not activate Fester or Blood (which uses similar wording).

So, why is the word Ability in either Fester or Blood? If it is not Rot that activates it, what it is? Ability is not used in any context other than a header grouping {immunity, mongrel, and purebred powers}.

This was either a reference to Poison (which has since been changed) or was pointing forward to an item rewrite to link to a future concept or maybe I was thinking of Conjoined twins with two abilities....

Fire would trigger Fester, but Fire can't trigger Blood.

So rather than answer your convoluted question, I'd like to negate it so that Rot doesn't trigger Fester. This could be done by removing the word ability from Fester and Blood. Then avoiding every using that word again.

Acceptable?

if the boosters have been printed, then I'll figure something else out.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:12 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Booster rules sheets have been printed. Festers are being boxed up now. Here's the final rules: http://sfr-inc.com/DaemonDiceBoosters3x5.pdf

When you read through this, you see that Fester does NOT cause the Rot to take a Stun immediately. It happens after the Fester suffers all its stuns and wounds. So it's possible for a Rot to take out the last body part of the Fester, and then in turn get its last body part taken out. Since the starter rules state that you lose as soon as you lose the last body part during the suffer stuns and wounds phase, the Frost would lose before affecting the Rot. In a multi-player I suppose that the two could take each other out and leave other players to "not lose".
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:30 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pi's entire question is based on the Rot ability taking an already stunned die and making it wounded would trigger Fester.

This would thus happen at the very end of the Rot player's turn. it's not During the 'suffer' phase at all.

he's being very nit-picky with time slices.

I think that most players would just resolve it however and move on and not think about it half as much as we are.

it is very rare for two players to be that evenly matched.

Cliff
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