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Dragon Dice™ Top 10

 
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Crim86
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:15 pm GMT    Post subject: Dragon Dice™ Top 10 Reply with quote

So what would be the top 10 best dice in the game? Ranked in order from 1 to 10?
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TheLazyhase
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:41 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, power wise :
1 - Fireshadow
2 - Wolf Pack
3 - Vindicator
4 - Defender
5 - Sunflare
6 - Oak Lord
7 - Ashbringer
8 - Troll
9 - Mammoth Rider
10 - Marsh Swimmer

Special mention to the Dragon Cave, also called "Highway to good, old-fashioned melee brawl"

Look wise, the Dryad and Elder Dryad would be quite a bit higher, as would the Cryohydra and Bear master. I would need to be at home to better see who are the most beautiful one :p
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DialFforFunky
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:40 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The definition of best is rather broad. However, given flat rarity and instead focussing on power, this would be my top 10:

1. Fireshadow
This guy does everything, and then a little bit more. Packed with SAIs and yet maintaining a steady stream of 'normal' icons as well. This die simply has no real downsides.

2. Gold Medallion
Untargetable hyper mobile resurrection on a stick, with some added flurries on top. In a game where keeping your dice on the table means winning, and re-rolling has a tremendous burst-potential, this is a die that can almost single-handedly decide games.

3. Troll
Very close to the Gold Medallion, and in some armies probably better. It is less mobile and targetable, but has some small advantages in having a racial power, Smite, Id Icon (magic) and being a resurrectable target itself.

4. Death Mage/Inferno/Elder Dryad/Ashbringer/Sunflare/Weasel Folk/Magi
Mages have a very significant influence in most Dragon Dice™ games, and these are probably the top ones. They all waste very little icons in unnecessary areas (saves and the occasional maneuver is all you need), have a significant racial power, or in the case of the Weasel Folk, simply the best colours of magic .

5. Dragonne Knight
Being almost unmatched in terms of both speed and defence. Bringing enough of these guys can win you games before your opponent has the chance to not-lose.

6. Leopard Rider
I should probably rate this higher than the Dragonne Knight, but I have a slight aversion for the infinite re-rolls and the missile icons, so I wont. Still, a 1/3 chance of hitting a re-rollable melee icon (which also counts as maneuvers) means you can occasionally go "whoopsy, I accidentally thrashed half your army with a single die".

7. Mammoth Rider
Very consistent, fast and deadly. Having a doubling racial power on 6 non-negatable maneuver icons is something one might quickly overlook. This guy was probably one of the key components in coining the expression 'path to victory'.

8. Dragon Lord
With some very flashy SAIs and an excellent power, not to mention a neat racial benefit. Having all colours of magic available is great when you have two magic producing faces. The only real downside to the Dragonlord is its unreliability to produce icons in high quantities.

9. Dragonkin Common (any kind)
I included these because simply because I think Dragonkin can play a critical role in establishing a board-position, and are an option I regularly under-value. Also, having a psuedo 2 saves that might actually survive on a Cantrip is always funny.


10. Devestator/Swamp Giant/Burner
Some of my personal favourites, though I'm not certain they actually belong there. The Swamp Giant is kind of niche, but when he gets his spot, he does his job like few others can. Its ability to generate maneuvers, melee-deadliness and, most of all, saves, is very impressive. The other two generate an excellent amount of missile while wasting no faces on things they shouldn't be doing. The Devestator has a neat edge in that it can function very independently of the rest of the army. Even a few of these can remain a threat without any assistance whatsoever. The Burners, on the other hand, are great when gathered in a great swarm. Their racial benefit and speed gives them nice protection from melee and missile threats, while their incredible missile potential protects them from magic threats...

I'll finish the post later, but I have to run for now. Finished!


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Crim86
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:44 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only have a top 5 at this point, namely because I haven't had the opportunity to play test some of the others enough. I strongly agree with Funky's listed top 3, but there are a few dice I'm curious about. Where would the Phoenix, Leviathan, and Dragon Stalf factor in? Both of those monsters have excellent saves and SAI's, while the Dragon Stalf offers great magic potential and free dragon summoning.
As for my top 5, here goes:

1) Fireshadow.
This guy can has an awesome chance of giving you exactly what you need, when you need it. Couple that with the fact that it has some very solid offensive and defensive SAI's makes this die one of the most reliable in the game.

2) Troll.
With a double smite and regenerate, combined with some complimenting normal facrs, , the Troll gives you pretty much everything you need in a melee. Also, getting a free 4 health back now and again is game changing.

3) Gold Medallion.
All SAI's, all useful. The only reason this is under the Troll is due to its need to be carried. Still, it can ressurect and unbury. Both are too powerful to overlook.

4) Leopard Rider.
Solid melee, solid maneuvers (even better in swamps) and the 33% chance of rerolling melee is devastating. The damage I've caused with by stacking a few of these guys is disgusting.

5) Ashbringer/Sunburst. While the Ashbringer only has a 3 point cantrip and they are pretty defenseless, it's hard to find a more reliable source of magic. They also have a pretty decent spell list, and under the right circumstances, can evacuate a terrain faster than other mages.
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TheLazyhase
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:53 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dragon staff have both the problem of items (he make the army he is on significantly less able to soak damage) and the problem of monster (10-sided so low reliability of SAI and only average amount of magic face). I wouldn't put it anywhere in a top 10 list.

The phenix is useable, but not too awesome, because he lack a bit of offensive firepower. Even for soaking damage, a Fireshadow is usually better (70% odds of good result on save roll, better offensive option, and you can cantrip your way out of sticky situations).

Leviathan, I don't have seen him too much yet :p
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DialFforFunky
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:59 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting! The Dragon Staff that just didn't make it to the top 10, but not by much. The fact that it is an item isn't much of an issue to me. Having less 'active' health might not be the great, but the untargetability is a bit of a double edged sword. Having magic on a hard-to-kill die can be quite beneficial, and items add a bit of mobility to an army. Rerolls on a 7-magic producing icon is nuts, as (like most rerolls) it can turn a game around all by itself. The increased potency of the ID is neat touch as well.
To me, the only real downsides to the staff are being single-colour (though having multiple races in an army can roughly negate this) and, most significantly, not being able to function in reserves. If you get caught in a bad spot, depending on a staff might hurt quite a bit more.

I agree on the Phoenix. Usually, its simply a Fireshadow #5. Then again, comparing pretty much any die to the Fireshadow is going to end up ugly. The Phoenix is probably somewhere in between solid and good. I find it funny that, despite initial appearances, the Phoenix does roughly as much in a melee army as it would in a missile army.

I'm really curious to see how the new monsters will fit in to the equation. I've seen surprisingly little action out of them.


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TheLazyhase
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:02 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dragon staff cannot give more than 4 magic icon however. For his health, he is decent but not extremely good at magic generation, and can regulary summon one or more dragons. Which is rarely if ever a bad thing, but it's not as good as other magic option quite often.

Edit : in the artifact line, my preferred is is the Magic Carpet for me, because Elevate is the closest thing to Create Fireminion I can think (a ranged/save/maneuver SAI, more or less). It's still only a copy, and it require to have some big dice(s) with it. Also, it have one magic face where I would want a missile one Sad
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DialFforFunky
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:35 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because I was curious:

Dragonstaff:
8,7,7,4,4,4,4,-,-,-
Total magic icons: 38
38/10 = 3,8 -> will generate 3.8 magic on average
3.8/4= 0.95 -> generates 0.95 magic per health point

Elder Dryad:
8,4,4,3,2,-
Total magic icons: 19
19/6 = 3.2 -> will generate 3.2 magic on average
3.2/3=1.1 -> generates 1.1 magic per health point

However, this is without taking rerolls into account. If we allow each Summon Dragon Icon to reroll once, we'll get:

Dragonstaff:
8,(7+3.8 ),(7+3.8 ),4,4,4,4,-,-,-
Total magic icons: 45.6
45.6/10 = 4,6 -> will generate 4.6 magic on average
4.6/4= 1,1 -> generates 1.1 magic per health point

Huh. This was even higher than I expected. The Elder Dryad is one of the best magicians when it comes to producing in quantity. And yet, the Dragonstaff is roughly on the same level as the same level the Elder Dryad. That is, if you want dragons and are not in reserves... Still, rather impressive.


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TheLazyhase
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:06 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you take into account dragon summoning as 7 points. Which I wouldn't, because I don't alway want dragons. I prefer to see the staff as a slightly under average magic generator, with free dragons, and find him better if my army love dragon everywhere and less good if my army is bad against dragon.
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Crim86
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:36 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dragon stalf might be my favorite artifact, although I dont have a trebuchet yet... The pressure gained from free dragons is pretty devestating if applied correctly. And in the rare case of double free dragons, that can shift the game very quickly. I once got a lucky 2nd turn roll, with double free dragons, then dropped a third on his home. That match was over pretty quick Smile
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TheLazyhase
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:10 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

To return to the phoenix / fireshadow difference : yesterday, I learned the hard way that there is one thing the phoenix is way better at than the fireshadow : surviving to lighning bolt. (and other targeted effect). The phoenix is even the dice who have the better odds to survive a Slay (Minor death SAI), since while monsters survive 10% of the time and regular dice ~15%, the phoenix survive 28% of the time.
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Denimwizard
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:12 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just cracked a Cannibal on Friday, i have to say i really like this die. Not sure if it would fit my top 10 yet. But i did manage to land a swallow which was awesome lol
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Crim86
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:30 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel the same way about the Leviathan. I recently pulled 2, but I haven't had the chance to playtest them much. They seem like extremely solid support dice, but rely on other dice for the brunt of the damage.
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