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New Player!!! Some clarifying questions though
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Robb
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:29 pm GMT    Post subject: New Player!!! Some clarifying questions though Reply with quote

If you care about how I just got into Dragon Dice™, read:
Hey everyone! I just picked up a couple of Undead vs. Feral starter sets at PAX East after doing a quick 18 point demo there. I had vaguely remembered seeing my father and brother play these in my early youth, and saw them at PAXes past, but finally tried them... and loved it!

The game I played was quick, didn't use any magic, and was pretty basic/pre set locations and such as it was a demo being run after few minutes. So, bought the boxes, sat down at a table, opened them up, and started reading... and of man, that rule book. Magic? How does that work? WHAT? SUMMONING DRAGONS?! This isn't the game I just played!

So, I had bought the starter sets (I could have bought a few boosters and they said they'd give the terrain, dragons and rules with it) so that the one friend I knew would at least give it a try would have an army on par with what I was using. Unfortunately, this was only yesterday, and he ended up not being able to try it with me today.

Okay, if you don't care, start here:
So, I've been going over the rulebook and essentially playing both armies at varying point values against each other by myself to get a better grasp on the rules before I teach my friend. I kept it simple in the beginning, not understanding magic, or dragons, etc. A few times over and a bunch of battles, I finally think I figured out magic and to some extent dragons. My questions are as follows:

-When a dragon is summoned, is it tamed or untamed?
-Depending on which of the above, how does it become tamed/untamed?
-What happens when a dragon is at a terrain with literally no armies at it?
-Can I summon dragons from an enemy's summoning pool if it is Ivory or a color I can summon?
-If I get a terrain to 8, can I completely abandon it by moving to reserves but still count it as captured so long as it doesn't change?
-If I roll a maneuver check, and I get X cantrips- I can cast any spell that that army cast cast of up to X casting cost so long as it resolves instantly, correct? (such as Path, or Ashes to Ashes)
-When Dragons roll belly, they do no damage that round, correct?
-Can you choose what to use ID results for during the dragon phase (i.e., choose to use them for saves, or melee or ranged? I'd imagine you can't split a single unit's ID though)?
-Is there a sheet or two with all of the SAI's and spells that I can easily reference rather than flipping through the book continuously while I learn or for when I teach someone?

In addition to those, a couple of more random questions. So, I currently have 36 points for Undead and Feral (and I got a free common Lava Elf die for doing the demo), and I think I'd rather get something other than them to expand my collection, whether that be more armies or special terrain or dragons, etc. What should I do to make the game more interesting? I'll probably pick up 2 boosters of another armor regardless to get 30 points of it, but beyond that what do you recommend?

Also, why are the Treefolk cheaper than the rest in the store? Are they going out of stock? Are they bad? Are they just on sale?

Thanks for your future responses everyone! I'll try to get my gaming buddies into it as well as check out if anyone at my FLGS plays; though they tend to be much more Magic: The Gathering focused.[/list][/list]
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:35 am GMT    Post subject: Re: New Player!!! Some clarifying questions though Reply with quote

Hey Robb! Great to see a new face around here! Don't worry about the rulebook being intimidating at first - most of the rules will become second nature soon enough. For those that do not get answered, most people here are more than happy to answer your questions.

Robb wrote:
-When a dragon is summoned, is it tamed or untamed?

When you summon a dragon, it is untamed, and will attack at the start of each turn, attacking the player who's turn it is


Robb wrote:
-Depending on which of the above, how does it become tamed/untamed?

There is currently only one way to tame a dragon, and that is by means of the TSR/SFR-logo on the Dragonlord and Dragon Masters. This icon allows the Dragonlord or Dragonmaster to roll before the Dragon attacks. If the icon comes up, the dragon gets tamed. There are some more rules regarding the taming and untaming of Dragons on page 25 and 26 of the rulebook.


Robb wrote:
-What happens when a dragon is at a terrain with literally no armies at it?

Nothing. The Dragon stays at the terrain it was summoned to, and waits until a new snack comes along, or it is summoned elsewhere.


Robb wrote:
-Can I summon dragons from an enemy's summoning pool if it is Ivory or a color I can summon?

You can! (This also means that choosing what dragons you bring along becomes slightly more interesting, as you want to balance the power at your disposal with the power you allow your opponent access to)


Robb wrote:
-If I get a terrain to 8, can I completely abandon it by moving to reserves but still count it as captured so long as it doesn't change?

Nope. Sadly, the terrain gets rolled back up to 7 as soon as the army occupying the terrain has no more units in it (either from getting killed or from simply leaving).


Robb wrote:
-If I roll a maneuver check, and I get X cantrips- I can cast any spell that that army cast cast of up to X casting cost so long as it resolves instantly, correct? (such as Path, or Ashes to Ashes)

Maneuver rolls are pretty much the only rolls in which a Cantrip has no effect. This was done to avoid tricky issues with timing. Cantrips do work on most other rolls though, and you can use them to cast any spell at your disposal, as long as you've produced enough Cantrips to pay them.


Robb wrote:
-When Dragons roll belly, they do no damage that round, correct?

It depends. The Belly itself doesn't add to the damage total that was rolled by the dragon. However, the Dragon may have rolled Tails before rolling Belly. In such cases, the damage from the Tails results still stands. For example, if you roll Tails, Tails, Tails, Belly, the Dragon still deals 9 damage.


Robb wrote:
-Can you choose what to use ID results for during the dragon phase (i.e., choose to use them for saves, or melee or ranged? I'd imagine you can't split a single unit's ID though)?

Yes, you can! In fact, this can sometimes be used in very sneaky ways. As for splitting the ID-result - I'm actually not sure, so I'll have to get back to you on that.


Robb wrote:
-Is there a sheet or two with all of the SAI's and spells that I can easily reference rather than flipping through the book continuously while I learn or for when I teach someone?

These are available in the Rep-Forum-section. There might be some in the Artwork, stories, and other user contributed stuff-section.


Robb wrote:
In addition to those, a couple of more random questions. So, I currently have 36 points for Undead and Feral (and I got a free common Lava Elf die for doing the demo), and I think I'd rather get something other than them to expand my collection, whether that be more armies or special terrain or dragons, etc. What should I do to make the game more interesting? I'll probably pick up 2 boosters of another armor regardless to get 30 points of it, but beyond that what do you recommend?

Getting some terrains and dragons are probably top-priorities, as the allow you to 'set the stage' for your battles in different ways. Buying additional starters isn't a bad thing. After that, Dragonkin and Minor Terrains (respectively) are quite useful, as you are always allowed to bring some along with your army. Magic items are fun, but rather specialized and not a necessary requirement, so those can wait. Finally, buying more from the races is always a good option.


Robb wrote:
Also, why are the Treefolk cheaper than the rest in the store? Are they going out of stock? Are they bad? Are they just on sale?

Treefolk are certainly not bad. In fact, I think they are quite the opposite, as they have relatively 'focussed' dice (for example: not having missile icons on melee units) with lots of saves and a Racial benefit that can make mistakes slightly less punishing. They are a very solid race for beginners.
The reason that they are cheaper mostly has to do with economics. Poorer economical climates and (I believe) a different producer forced SFR to raise their prices on their later products.


Robb wrote:
Thanks for your future responses everyone! I'll try to get my gaming buddies into it as well as check out if anyone at my FLGS plays; though they tend to be much more Magic: The Gathering focused.


You are welcome! If you want to see some examples, you might want to check out the On-line games-section of these boards. Also, if you have any more questions, feel free to ask them!


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Last edited by DialFforFunky on Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:35 am GMT; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:31 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

(I'm getting some weird errors while editing (403 error), so I'll just try making a new reply instead. Sorry for the double post)

In regard to the splitting of ID results: I couldn't find a definitive answer in the rulebook, but in this topic Chuckpint states that you can split IDs. Since he practically is the rulebook, you can assume he is right.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:19 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you can spit IDs. Think of it this way-when you roll your dice, all the ID results go into one big "ID" pool, which you can then spend any way you like. This even allows you to split the magic from IDs. IF you roll a rare Dwarf, for instance, you can use the ID for 3 gold or red, or split it 2 gold/1 red or 2 red/1 gold.

On the Rep Forum thread, you can find the playmats we use for demo games, as well as more advanced "Intermediate" playmats. I'd suggest using the demo ones for a few games until yo get comfortable with the basic flow of the game, then add the extra abilities and spells from the Intermediate mat.

As for your next dice, you might want to check out some of the races that work with the ones you already have. Try to find races that share at least one color, so they can combine their magic results for that color. Undead will work well with any race containing black, while Treefolk can work with any race that contains gold or green. (Hint: Gold magic is especially useful, so you might go that way.) The expansion dice are very helpful, but again I'd get familiar with the basic elements of the game before I added them.

Thanks for stopping by at PAX! We love to see new players learn about our great game!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:28 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Robb!

Where abouts in Mass are you? I'm starting now to try to get some Dragon Dice™ games going at Pandemonium in Central Square Cambridge: http://www.pandemoniumbooks.com/

I'm there most every Wednesday for open board gaming night 6-11pm (personally I tend to be there 5:30-9:30). A couple of us who were playing at Pax-E will be doing some Dragon Dice™ this Wednesday and trying to recruit some of the regular Wednesday night gang of gamers. Hope to get some regular play established at the store and host a novice tourney sometime in the near future!

—Cat
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:00 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robb, I'm not trying to hijack your thread and I do want to welcome you. I know that sometimes a demo gets fast and hectic and things are skipped over for time. The demo is intended to give a flavor of the game, but not every wrinkle in the rules. However it is called Dragon Dice™, so the dragon should've atleast been spoken to if not rolled against your army.

You've seen how friendly our online cultists (I mean players) are. So they can answer anything for you that you might've missed in your demo. We did do a ton of them!

DialFforFunky wrote:
(I'm getting some weird errors while editing (403 error)
I got some of these as well over the weekend. It seems to have something to do with the URL BB Code tag. For now I suggest just putting the URL on a line by itself and most browsers will turn it into a hyperlink for you.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:05 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies everyone!! I've since played a few more games against myself and feel like I'm really starting to get a grasp, and certainly about as much as the demo sheet. I'll likely print those out for my friend when we play for quick reference.

A few follow up questions:
-If I summon an ivory dragon from my enemies summoning pool, who rolls for it?
-In regards to the suggestions for what I should get, tell me if this sounds good:
--2 Kickers of a new army (Thinking Treefolk or Goblin... I want something with a different feel/strategy than Feral or Undead)
--1 Battlefields Expansion
--1 Dragonkin Expansion
--1 Set of 6 dragons

Also, what dragon set should I get? I'm inclined to get the Ivory set since I'll be able to use it with any army, but I don't know. As it stands, I have from the two starers Green, Gold, Black, and Ivory dragons, but I don't see a set of any single colored ones for sale.

Cat- I'm about 45 minutes south of Boston, but I commute in every day to South Boston for work. I can't tomorrow (today? Ugh, it's midnight...) but I'll see how easy it'll be to navigate to that shop once in a while. I take the commuter rail, so I can train hop with my monthly pass.

Cliff- Oh, I know how it is with PAX and demos, and it definitely wasn't a bad thing that the full game ended up being much more in depth Smile I was just a bit taken aback by HOW much there was to it! And I don't think magic was ever really rolled for, so no dragons appeared... regardless, I had enough fun to buy a couple sets, so here we are!

I had more questions but, it's late and they're currently escaping me. I'm sure once I do a few more mock battles or I get my friend to play they'll come back to me. Thanks again!!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:25 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to hear that you are making progress!

Robb wrote:
-If I summon an ivory dragon from my enemies summoning pool, who rolls for it?

The owner of the dragon keeps rolling the dice. In theory, you'll never need to touch your opponents dice.

Robb wrote:
-In regards to the suggestions for what I should get, tell me if this sounds good:
--2 Kickers of a new army (Thinking Treefolk or Goblin... I want something with a different feel/strategy than Feral or Undead)
--1 Battlefields Expansion
--1 Dragonkin Expansion
--1 Set of 6 dragons

This looks very good! I forgot that there is only one starter available right now, otherwise I'd advise you to get a second starter of a different kind. The kickers both work decently with what you've already got. The battlefields en Dragonkin-expansions will give you more of a a hint of what you will require later, but it should be good enough for now.

Robb wrote:
Also, what dragon set should I get? I'm inclined to get the Ivory set since I'll be able to use it with any army, but I don't know. As it stands, I have from the two starers Green, Gold, Black, and Ivory dragons, but I don't see a set of any single colored ones for sale.

The Ivory set is excellent. I'm not really used to them, and they have some rules that differ from the normal dragons. But since they can be used in any army, I'd say they are a smart choice.
However, considering how relatively well the dragons match the colours of the races that you got, I'd say that you don't strictly need to buy a set of dragons. You could consider buying an additional starter, which randomly gives you 2 dragons and 4 terrains instead of 6 dragons, but adds a good bit of the races that you've already got as well (and for 2$ less as well).

The single-colour-set is indeed missing from the sets, but I'm not sure SFR has the intention of adding it. In fact, the products SFR offers right now are slightly starter-unfriendly, as they used to have 4 starters. But, considering how SFR is a tiny company with limited funds, they have to go along with with it and bite the bullet sometimes. Still, I think they are doing a very good job at offering the best they can.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:20 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The single-color dragons are not available as a set by themselves, but in each dragon set you will get one single-color dragon. If you buy the "Red Drakes" set, it will be a red drake, and so on. You will also get the 5 related hybrids. (So in that Red Drake set, you would get drakes in red/black, red/blue, red/gold, red/green, and red/ivory.)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:23 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

DialFforFunky wrote:

The single-colour-set is indeed missing from the sets, but I'm not sure SFR has the intention of adding it.
Nope, the dragon sets we have are all elemental based. so all 6 dragons in the set share a single element. We can't offer every possible combination, so that is the one we picked.

Quote:
In fact, the products SFR offers right now are slightly starter-unfriendly, as they used to have 4 starters.


Can you expand on that? Many games have a single starter and then boosters and expansions. We were actually dinged before for having so many different starters.

personally, I'd rather have NO starter, but I'm told we must have atleast one. So right now we have one and in the future we will have a different one... There was a major hint to it at pax, but almost no one noticed (or atleast didn't comment on it)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:21 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
Can you expand on that? Many games have a single starter and then boosters and expansions. We were actually dinged before for having so many different starters.


Peaple disliked the amount of sterters? Weird, I consider multiple starters a good thing in certain categories. Most TCG's I have played had multiple versions of the same starter setup, and I consider Dragon Dice™ to be quite similar to TCG's. I can see how people complained about content that is only available through means of starters. But having multiple starters along ordinary products is a good thing.

But in terms of starter-friendliness, I think this is the main consideration: most basic terrains are only available in a product that contains 4 of them, selected at random, at a price of $18. At that price, I can imagine that people do not want to get pigeon-holed into spending $56+ on 60+ health of races that they might not like.
(I'm very much ok with an expansion that contains the basics, but still needs kickers to be playable though)

As for the subtle hint - has it got anything to do with the new art...?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:34 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may split this off into another thread, but for now...

DialFforFunky wrote:
But in terms of starter-friendliness, I think this is the main consideration: most basic terrains are only available in a product that contains 4 of them, selected at random, at a price of $18. At that price, I can imagine that people do not want to get pigeon-holed into spending $56+ on 60+ health of races that they might not like.
(I'm very much ok with an expansion that contains the basics, but still needs kickers to be playable though)


So here is a question for you. Would a product that contained:
a random highland (of the four basic types)
a random coastland (of the four basic types)
a random swampland (of the four basic types)
a random flatland (of the four basic types)
two random dragons (from the set of 12 basic ones)
(i.e. basically that portion of a starter)
solve the issue for you?

If so, what do you think would be an appropriate cost for such a product? Keep in mind what the cost of a starter is and what the cost of kickers are.

Quote:
As for the subtle hint - has it got anything to do with the new art...?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:48 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you know that I am quite in favour of that Land/Dragon pack!

A $5–$8 range would work for me. Even $10 if you had to, given the size of the dice.

The other key item is getting a physical rule book available. Maybe offer it through Lulu for a hardcopy as well as the .pdf? Both could then be kept updated.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:01 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cat wrote:

The other key item is getting a physical rule book available. Maybe offer it through Lulu for a hardcopy as well as the .pdf? Both could then be kept updated.
Is it that common to not have access to a printer?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:06 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the size of the rules .pdf, most of the gamers I know would prefer to have the option to buy a printed and bound copy, or at least a printed and hole-punched one. Getting hard-copies available certainly isn't as critical as lands and dragons.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:55 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cat wrote:
Given the size of the rules .pdf, most of the gamers I know would prefer to have the option to buy a printed and bound copy, or at least a printed and hole-punched one. Getting hard-copies available certainly isn't as critical as lands and dragons.
The reason we haven't done this in the past is that the rules change/grow every time we have a release. So that bound copy of the rules is only good for 12 months at the most. I wouldn't want to have to pay for a new rulebook that frequently.

note: actually SFR did do it one year, they didn't even last that long before the first change.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:01 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hence if you were to do it, Lulu would be the best option for print-on-demand. But failing that, printing and punching works well enough.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:38 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know the POD prices structure, but would people be willing to pay $10-15 or possibly more every time a new release came out to update their rulebook? I went online at Staples.com, and you can upload the PDF and get it printed two-sided with 3-hole punches for $9.09. (Don't know about the shipping costs-I didn't want to accidentally buy one myself.) If you want to pay a little more, you can get it with a comb or spiral binding and even a cover.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:05 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for the replies everyone!

cliffwiggs- is there an ETA on the new starters? I actually originally was planning on buying two more starters of different races but saw none were available online (I saw that there were a couple Amazon v. Swamp Stalkers left at PAX though). If it's not too far off I may wait for that, otherwise I may proceed with my plan above.

I may forgo a set of dragons at this point and just get 4 kickers, 2 of 2 different armies (Now that I looked at racial abilities and such, I'm thinking either Treefolk, Swamp Stalkers, and/or Firewalkers... some combo of those three)... unless, again, the new starter isn't too far off.

As a new player, I guess I have a good opinion around starters. The first words out of my mouth after the demo were "Is there some kind of starter set I can buy to show my friends and get them interested?" I can see how, once you have a bit of a collection it can be burdensome, where I don't see kickers for Undead or Feral at this point, but it is an amazing value. Two kickers are $20, the starter is $18... and for $2 less you get 1 uncommon and 1 common extra per army, 2 dragons and 4 terrain. So long as I want dice for both armies, I don't see why I wouldn't buy them.

EDIT: I see that there are currently no Swamp Stalker kickers in the store... hmm, well that makes my choice easier!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:07 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robb,

We haven't made an official announcement to anyone about the new starters, but I can tell you it will be later this year and it will be a slightly different format than the current starters you are looking at. Significantly more dice, but at a higher cost than $18. It'll still be a bargain compared to buying individual kicker.

So I wouldn't wait. We do have a few starters available from Pax, I will be adding those to the website jsut as soon as I have a chance to verify the counts.
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