View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Kos666 dragonfoal
Joined: 18 Aug 2014 Posts: 5 Location: Clevedon

|
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:25 pm GMT Post subject: Dragons |
|
|
Hello there
Quick questions about dragons. When you summon dragons can you summon the opponent's ones from their summoning pool? I assume you can from any other terrain. Similar question for Dragons lair. Can you use it to summon any dragon from any summoning pool / terrain or just yours?
Thank you |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bluewizard uncommon Stockholder
Joined: 16 Jul 2013 Posts: 635 Location: Chantilly, VA

|
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:51 pm GMT Post subject: Re: Dragons |
|
|
Kos666 wrote: | Hello there
Quick questions about dragons. When you summon dragons can you summon the opponent's ones from their summoning pool? I assume you can from any other terrain. Similar question for Dragons lair. Can you use it to summon any dragon from any summoning pool / terrain or just yours?
Thank you |
Yep that works great!
I enjoy when my opponents dragon attacks their army
Of course I am a little sad when my opponent has summoned my dragon and it now attacks me... Oh well. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
chuckpint White Dragon SFR President Site Admin
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 9166 Location: Evanston, IL

|
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:34 am GMT Post subject: |
|
|
Just remember, the owner of the dragon gets to roll the dragon. And for hybrid dragons, the owner of the dragon gets to pick which individual breath affect to apply if breath comes up. Army effects are automatic from both breaths. _________________ You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceâ„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceâ„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceâ„¢, and others (too many to count). |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Kos666 dragonfoal
Joined: 18 Aug 2014 Posts: 5 Location: Clevedon

|
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:16 am GMT Post subject: Thank you |
|
|
Thanks all. Very helpful |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Kos666 dragonfoal
Joined: 18 Aug 2014 Posts: 5 Location: Clevedon

|
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:59 am GMT Post subject: Dispel and Dragons |
|
|
Just another question please. Will dispel work if somebody was using magic to summon a dragon at a location with a unit that has dispel? Is the magic assumed to be cast at that terrain and hence a dispel can be rolled?
I would expect the 8th face dragonlair ability not to be affected by dispel but is there a rule?
Thanks |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
chuckpint White Dragon SFR President Site Admin
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 9166 Location: Evanston, IL

|
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:08 am GMT Post subject: |
|
|
A unit with Dispel Magic can be rolled anytime spells are cast at the unit, the army it's in, or the terrain where it's at. If you look the Summon Dragon spell, its target is a terrain. So yes, if there is a unit with Dispel Magic at a terrain that is targeted by a Summon Dragon spell, you get to roll the unit to see if you can dispel that Summon Dragon spell (along with any other spells targeting the terrain, army or unit).
The Dragon Lair's terrain effect is not a spell. So Dispel Magic cannot be used to dispel that effect. So the rule is simple: it only works against spells, nothing else. _________________ You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceâ„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceâ„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceâ„¢, and others (too many to count). |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Kos666 dragonfoal
Joined: 18 Aug 2014 Posts: 5 Location: Clevedon

|
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:15 pm GMT Post subject: One more please! |
|
|
Thank you Chuck. Very helpful as always. May I confirm something as well. Does the Dragon's Lair come into effect before the Dragon attack? Reading the rules it says the beginning of your turn, which we assume is before any effects / dragon attacks.
Sorry to do these piecemeal but Monday is Dragon Dince night and there were a lot of questions.
Another related to Dragons. Does cantrip work on a Dragon roll?
Thank you |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
cliffwiggs SFR Treasurer Chief Wheedler SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 10794 Location: Cumming, GA - USA

|
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:50 pm GMT Post subject: |
|
|
There is a part of the turn called 8th face effects. That is when the Dragons Lair takes place and it is before the dragon attack.
and cantrip would activate during the dragon attack roll. _________________ Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Tielner dragonmount
Joined: 11 Feb 2016 Posts: 26 Location: in the middle of nowhere

|
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:06 pm GMT Post subject: |
|
|
We had in our club a lot of games in which dragons were cast and the opinions vary between 'make a 36 pts game unbalanced' and 'fun factor is not increased'. But I have to admit that we do not play with dragonslayers and stuff. So our view may be limited.
The problem I have with dragons is that their damage range is between overkill and nothing. In a 36 pts game it can be quite frustrating if the opponent throws a double jaws with 3 tails und you throw a double belly.
A single throw can destroy a really good game - a game which was full of fun and suspense up to that dragon attack.
What I would change is that belly also makes damage 4 or 5 pts.
Generally I think that the damage is a bit too high.  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
DScottOBrien common Stockholder
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 366 Location: pennsylvania

|
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:25 pm GMT Post subject: |
|
|
i've had similar things happen when playing, my opponents get devastating damage when the dragon is rolled against me, and when faced with the dragons attack, my opponent rolls belly, or treasure. however, this is the nature of a game with an element of chance inherent with dice of any kind, and can be chalked up to the luck of the dice.
to ascribe a damage factor to the belly of the dragon makes little sense, IMO, as this is akin to the knight finding the weak spot of the beast. after all, in the fable of david and goliath, a single stone finding its mark fell goliath, leaving david unscathed. _________________ D Scott O'Brien
Dice Junkie
Anal-retentive rules scrutinizer |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Tielner dragonmount
Joined: 11 Feb 2016 Posts: 26 Location: in the middle of nowhere

|
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:42 am GMT Post subject: |
|
|
Lokidchser - I see your point
The question is - do we want that dragons have so much influence in a 36 points game?
One good throw (or a bad one) can decide the game.
Or in other words - the one who can cast dragons earlier is more likely to win. Meanwhile in our club everyone takes the first turn. There is no fighting anymore in the frontier terrain. Without dragons we had interesting fights like in a football game - fighting for every yard. Now most of my clubmembers bunker in their hometerrain sending dragons after dragons after dragons.
Dragons should be more reliable but not that strong. Like in the very first edition. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
cliffwiggs SFR Treasurer Chief Wheedler SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 10794 Location: Cumming, GA - USA

|
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:46 am GMT Post subject: |
|
|
Tielner wrote: | Like in the very first edition. | what specifically are you referring too? the lower damage for claw and jaws (and no damage for wings)?
Dragons have never been 'reliable' in their results. because there is so much variance in their most to least damage across the faces.
The damage was increased years ago because 36 health could basically ignore 2 dragons and most times could ignore 3. Only if you got up to 4 dragons were they considered a danger. _________________ Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
chuckpint White Dragon SFR President Site Admin
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 9166 Location: Evanston, IL

|
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:36 am GMT Post subject: |
|
|
And we made the wings do damage, so the drakes and wyrms are nearly the same average damage.
My wife has a motto with dragons: "Never send dragons to do all your dirty work." They are just too unreliable. _________________ You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceâ„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceâ„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceâ„¢, and others (too many to count). |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
cliffwiggs SFR Treasurer Chief Wheedler SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 10794 Location: Cumming, GA - USA

|
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:48 am GMT Post subject: |
|
|
chuckpint wrote: |
My wife has a motto with dragons: "Never send dragons to do all your dirty work." They are just too unreliable. | That is why I rarely use them. I'd rather spend that 14 magic on 3 FoD's. It's a sure amount of small damage vs trusting a random roll. _________________ Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Drachenwurfel uncommon Stockholder
Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 970

|
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:02 pm GMT Post subject: |
|
|
I still think, If WE make belly its current work and then reroll them, Dragons Would be more usefull. _________________ All gone |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Aravynn common
Joined: 27 Apr 2015 Posts: 273 Location: Winnipeg

|
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:23 pm GMT Post subject: |
|
|
Drachenwürfel wrote: | I still think, If WE make belly its current work and then reroll them, Dragons Would be more usefull. |
That would give wyrms a 5/12 chance to reroll... Might make them overkill.
I personally like dragons the way they are. They are unpredictable, but they aren't a short-term kill technique. I think they are best used as a long-term distraction/way to force armies (like mages) to other terrains. I use them as a way to dissuade armies from accessing a certain terrain if I can't send my own army there. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
cliffwiggs SFR Treasurer Chief Wheedler SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 10794 Location: Cumming, GA - USA

|
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:03 pm GMT Post subject: |
|
|
Aravynn wrote: |
That would give wyrms a 5/12 chance to reroll... Might make them overkill.
|
If the core concern is the unpredictability and the large amount of damage they can generate. Giving them another 2 faces to reroll on would just increase the average amount of damage they could produce. _________________ Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
DScottOBrien common Stockholder
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 366 Location: pennsylvania

|
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:18 pm GMT Post subject: |
|
|
i also fail to see the "logic" in having a reroll on the belly. tail, jaws, wings, etc. all have a logical aspect to them dealing damage. an exposed belly fails to meet this line of thinking, unless the wounds inflicted result in a spray of acid, or some such.  _________________ D Scott O'Brien
Dice Junkie
Anal-retentive rules scrutinizer |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
cliffwiggs SFR Treasurer Chief Wheedler SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 10794 Location: Cumming, GA - USA

|
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:22 pm GMT Post subject: |
|
|
lokidchser wrote: | i also fail to see the "logic" in having a reroll on the belly. tail, jaws, wings, etc. all have a logical aspect to them dealing damage. an exposed belly fails to meet this line of thinking, unless the wounds inflicted result in a spray of acid, or some such.  | Its a belly flop! _________________ Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Drachenwurfel uncommon Stockholder
Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 970

|
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:15 am GMT Post subject: |
|
|
There is not more logic to reroll a belly then a tail. _________________ All gone |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|