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DougElf vs Cliff - Scalders vs Lava Elves
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:41 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aravynn wrote:

I need to send you a web-compressed version of this. this file is freaking huge for web use. I'll try to tonight. Confused


It was not intended to be for web use. I was going to ask for that version once it was final which it will be one way or another within a week.
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dougelf
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:48 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

very nice on the rule book.


yeah i screwed up and forgot to double the id for my home casting.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:48 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

First march at the Frontier
Unopposed maneuver up to 5.
no action

second march in the reserves
magic action
Infiltrator - 5 Melee
Infiltrator - 1 Melee
Infiltrator - 4 Counter
Necromancer - 3 ID
Necromancer - 2 Save
Necromancer - 2 Save
Necromancer - 5 Magic
Necromancer - 5 Magic
Necromancer - 2 Magic
Scorpion Knight - 2 ID
Scorpion Knight - 4 Melee
Scorpion Knight - 2 Maneuver

17 red or black

I will cast burning hands on the 3 Infiltrators and 1 Scorpion Knight

Reinforce all my units to the frontier (I'll take some hits for a few turns)

EOT
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:51 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

dougelf wrote:
very nice on the rule book.


yeah i screwed up and forgot to double the id for my home casting.


No my point is that you had no units at your home. Those units were all in reserves at the time, not at your home. You retreated them during your first turn. in reserves you don't get to double ID's. that only works at a terrain.

Quote:
pulling my home and campaign armies to reserve and ending turn.

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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:53 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashstorm expires

Start of Scalders Turn


*****************************************************************************

Cliff
BUA

Cliff
DUA

Cliff
Reserve Army

Cliff
Summoning Pool



Cliff
Horde

Cliff
Campaign





(Burning Hands Units)



Cliff
Home Army


Doug's Home

(Standing Stones)
(Dead Lands)
Proposed Frontier

(Standing Stones)
Cliff's Home

(Standing Stones)


Doug
Home Army



Doug
Campaign

Doug
Horde


Doug
Summoning Pool

Doug
Reserve Army



Doug
DUA

Doug
BUA




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dougelf
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:17 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay going to maneuver my Home terrain since no one is there to resist it goes to 2.

Casting at Home

Dragonne Knight - 3 ID
Dragonne Knight - 6 Maneuver
Dragonne Knight - 2 Maneuver
Smolderer - 2 ID
Smolderer - 2 Save
Smolderer - 2 Maneuver
Smolderer - 4 Magic
Sparker - 1 ID
Sparker - 1 Magic
Sparker - 2 Magic
Sparker - 1 Magic

kind of confused a bit though since you doubled the 5 magic on a prior turn that i thought only the ID icon could double but it seems i can add then double if i was reading it correct.

So i have 14*2 = 28 Red/Green to use.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:34 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

dougelf wrote:
okay going to maneuver my Home terrain since no one is there to resist it goes to 2.

Casting at Home

Dragonne Knight - 3 ID
Dragonne Knight - 6 Maneuver
Dragonne Knight - 2 Maneuver
Smolderer - 2 ID
Smolderer - 2 Save
Smolderer - 2 Maneuver
Smolderer - 4 Magic
Sparker - 1 ID
Sparker - 1 Magic
Sparker - 2 Magic
Sparker - 1 Magic

kind of confused a bit though since you doubled the 5 magic on a prior turn that i thought only the ID icon could double but it seems i can add then double if i was reading it correct.

So i have 14*2 = 28 Red/Green to use.


Let's make sure we have this right. it seems what I did before is still confusing to you.

You have 6 ID Icons and 8 Magic Icons.

The ID Icons can double in Red or Green because you share the terrain colors of both.

So you have 6*2+8 = 20 Red/Green.

Let me start another post to show in detail how I resolved my previous roll.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:39 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going to go through this in detail so we make sure it is understood.

I'm rolling for magic and got
cliffwiggs wrote:

Infiltrator - 3 ID
Infiltrator - 5 Melee
Infiltrator - 4 Counter
Necromancer - 3 ID
Necromancer - 2 Save
Necromancer - 5 Magic


That is 6 ID icons and 5 magic icons.

Now we have to go through the modifiers.
There are no subtraction modifiers (like Ash Storm)
There is a division modifier (dancing lights), so I have to halve my magic results.

At this point I have 6+5 = 11 results. so I have to lose 6 magic results.
I choose to lose those from 5 magic icons and 1 ID icon. 5+1=6.

So I now have a magic roll of 5 ID icons.

When I get to doubling, I check to see if I have any doubling effects. I share colors with the terrain so I do.

those 5 ID's double to be 10 results.

Does that help? I can do an example with a cantrip which makes it even more complicated, but might help.
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dougelf
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:53 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay going to cast watery double 10 times on my home army.

okay now i understand and it's very weird on how it is done instead of cutting all magic results in half you are adding the total then removing 1/2 from where you want to and then doubling. Where i interpreted it as the two 3 id's where doubled making them 6's each and you had a 5 so it would be 6/2+6/2+5/2 = 8.5. vs since it's just 1/2 the total instead and then you can assign where you want it to go.

Rolling Reserves:

Dragonne Knight - 4 Fly
Dragonne Knight - 6 Maneuver
Dragonne Knight - 2 Maneuver
Smolderer - 2 Maneuver
Smolderer - 4 Magic
Sparker - 1 Save
Sparker - 1 Maneuver

4 magic = add 2 more watery doubles. Fear my +12 saves bwa hahahaha....

okay enough theatrics moving reserve to my Home.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:20 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start of Elfie Turn


*****************************************************************************

Cliff
BUA

Cliff
DUA

Cliff
Reserve Army

Cliff
Summoning Pool



Cliff
Horde

Cliff
Campaign





(Burning Hands Units)



Cliff
Home Army


Doug's Home

(Standing Stones)
Proposed Frontier

(Standing Stones)
Cliff's Home

(Standing Stones)


Doug
Home Army






12 Watery Doubles
Doug
Campaign

Doug
Horde


Doug
Summoning Pool

Doug
Reserve Army

Doug
DUA

Doug
BUA




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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:21 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

This will be easy.

unopposed maneuver up to 6

EOT
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:21 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start of Scalder Turn
(12 WD's last until end of this turn)


*****************************************************************************

Cliff
BUA

Cliff
DUA

Cliff
Reserve Army

Cliff
Summoning Pool



Cliff
Horde

Cliff
Campaign





(Burning Hands Units)



Cliff
Home Army


Doug's Home

(Standing Stones)
Proposed Frontier

(Standing Stones)
Cliff's Home

(Standing Stones)


Doug
Home Army






12 Watery Doubles
Doug
Campaign

Doug
Horde


Doug
Summoning Pool

Doug
Reserve Army

Doug
DUA

Doug
BUA




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dougelf
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:53 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay casting at home

Dragonne Knight - 4 Fly
Dragonne Knight - 4 Fly
Dragonne Knight - 4 Fly
Dragonne Knight - 2 Melee
Dragonne Knight - 2 Melee
Dragonne Knight - 6 Maneuver
Smolderer - 2 ID
Smolderer - 2 ID
Smolderer - 2 Save
Smolderer - 2 Maneuver
Smolderer - 3 Magic
Smolderer - 3 Magic
Sparker - 1 ID
Sparker - 1 ID
Sparker - 1 Magic
Sparker - 1 Maneuver
Sparker - 2 Magic
Sparker - 1 Magic

magic = 22 red/green

casting: ash storm for 16 to give a -8 penalty at the frontier terrain and then using Volcanic Eruption at the frontier terrain doing 8 damage and also requiring 8 maneuver or the terrain die goes to 5.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:51 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

very nice.

Since this is not a melee roll, the burning hands can not apply so I will not roll them separately.

Infiltrator - 5 Melee
Infiltrator - 5 Melee
Infiltrator - 4 Counter
Necromancer - 2 Save
Necromancer - 5 Magic
Necromancer - 3 Melee
Necromancer - 3 Melee
Necromancer - 4 Cantrip
Necromancer - 4 Cantrip
Scorpion Knight - 2 ID
Scorpion Knight - 2 Maneuver
Scorpion Knight - 1 Melee
Spider Rider - 1 Maneuver

ouch.

Cantrip resolves first and is not affected by the ashstorm (as an SAI). Like SAI's are resolved together, so it is 8 cantrip and not 4 and 4 which resolve separately.

6 black to cast open grave and won't use the other 2.

Saves: 4 Counter + 2 saves
Maneuvers: 3
IDs: 2 (can count as either)

The 4 counter are not affected by the Ashstorm, but the saves, maneuvers and ID's are.
The -8 reduces those all to zero.
So I have zero maneuvers, the terrain turns down.
I have 4 saves, so I take 4 damage. (The two scorpion knights w/o burining hands)
As an army targeting affect the open grave triggers and those two units goto the reserves instead of the DUA.

BTW here is a rule which doesn't come up very often and I'd forgotten about it, but in this case it is going to hurt me in future turns...
Quote:
For racial abilities that allow one result to be counted as another, during a combination avoidance roll a player must choose each result to be counted as one or the other, not both.


any reserves?
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dougelf
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:07 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

keeping troops as is and ending turn.
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dougelf
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:50 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if i am understanding a few things now that i didn't this fight is over i have a margin of 33% of winning until i start taking losses if you go caster war vs me. This is reduced even more once you start hitting me with dancing lights. pretty much not having SAI icon units besides movement is where i went wrong with this army. I have poor ranged and going melee vs a Lava Elf army with heavy casters and decent melee on highland terrain is asking to get wiped due to i went poor melee also.

Spells cast on your army as long as you generate 2 SAI cantrips will cause them to go to your reserve every time instead of DUA.

Maneuver penalties to try and drop your saves from them are pointless to cast since you can choose to take the maneuvers as saves prior to any reductions or penalties. If i drop a penalty on saves you can do the deduct from rolled prior to taking the maneuvers and then take the change over giving you a solid bump. So it's more or less i would have to roll really well and hope for no 2 cantrip SAI's to even generate any casualties at this stage you have a 66% chance of generating 2.

What i am curious on though if i firestorm does that also hit the dragons at a territory? I would think not since it seems the only way to attack them is during the dragon action.

If you want to run it out i can but honestly i don't have a high % chance of winning since i might get 2 rounds in on you and unless i roll really well and you roll low it's not going to end well for me since then you can lock me out and we are just moving troops around the board until one of us gets a really high roll and the other doesn't or i take enough attrition.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:20 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

You generally don't want to take on an enemy army at the places where it is the most strong. In this case, Lava Elves at a Highland.

The two Cantrips just meant that he could cast any spells up to 8 points in total. An Open Grave spell costs 6 points of basic black. It protects an army so that when the army takes damage, instead of going to the Dead Unit Area (DUA), those units go to reserves.

Remember the order of modifiers: Subtract, Divide, Multiply, Racial (convert), and Add. So a spell that takes out maneuvers would have no effect on most armies when they are rolling for saves. But on an army that can convert maneuvers to saves, it does have an effect. You would Subtract or Divide the maneuvers before converting them to saves. Ash Storm only subtracts from what you are rolling for. So if the army is saving for damage from say, a missile attack, then the Ash Storm would subtract saves, but not maneuvers. So if you can convert those maneuvers to saves, then the Ash Storm would have zero effect on the save gained from maneuvers. However, Volcanic Eruption calls for an army to roll saves AND maneuvers. So the Ash Storms have to be taken as much as possible. So with 8 Ash Storms on a terrain, and say for example that Cliff had gotten 4 saves and 5 maneuvers. He would have to take 8 of that 9, so he would have had left either 1 save or 1 maneuver (his choice).

Dragons are only affected by one spell: Summon Dragons. No other spells have any effect on them. So those 8 Ash Storms would not change what the dragon got for damage, but it would affect the results of the army that was attacked by the dragon.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:45 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. I think it is worth playing out. Even if just to nail down the order of modifers. You are still having trouble visualizing that.

and Iwould not make this a pure magic battle.

Yes, I am planning on picking off your units with finger of death, but that costs me more to kill htem than for you to return them.

and eventually I am going to move a common and start turning the other terrain up forcing a confrontation there. so this likely won't end as a magic battle, it'll end with 2 eight faces
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dougelf
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:50 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay waiting for your move since it's your go now. for terrain spells can i hit a terrain with multiple ones that can affect the die such as volcanic eruption and then flash flood?
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:26 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

dougelf wrote:
okay waiting for your move since it's your go now. for terrain spells can i hit a terrain with multiple ones that can affect the die such as volcanic eruption and then flash flood?


The spell itself tells you, in this case those spells both say:Multiple castings target multiple terrains.

so each spell can only be cast once, but you can cast multiple spells at once.

You could cast those two spells plus flash flood to turn a terrain down three times!

I will take my turn when I can. doing a lot of family stuff today.
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