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Old grudges reawoken #2 [reeser60504 vs DialFforFunky]
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 1992
Location: Groningen

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 1:21 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gah, you are absolutely right - I messed up the board from that point. Bah. The board was missing units, which means the Shadowchaser could totally be on your home without me knowing it. Sorry for that. I'm cool with either the Shadowchaser or the Sunburst being at your home.


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reeser60504
dragonsteed



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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 11:32 pm GMT    Post subject: My Save against 17... Reply with quote



The initial roll generated 6 Saves (4 Gorgon, 1 Explorer and 1 Sunburst).
My army still has Flashfire which, if I understand it, allows me to re-roll a die: Fireshadow



No go on the reroll (I shook the computer too hard).

So my 6 Saves are doubled to 12 for the 8th face and I've got 5 damage to pop.

Move the Sunflare and 3 Sunbursts to the DUA.

Counter-Attack:



OK..not as much punch as I would have liked...but I hope that I'm understanding the rules...

Literally no Melee, but Firewalker Saves during a Melee roll count as Melee: so to start, I get 2 Watcher and 1 for each Explorer for 4 Saves which translate to 4 Melee. My Flashfire is still in effect, so I'll reroll the Fireshadow:



I'll take the 4 Cantrips from the Genie and Cast a second Flashfire on My Frontier Campaign Army, which allows me to reroll the Sentinel:



4 Saves previously noted as 4 Melee + 4 Smite for Fireshadow + 4 Smite for Sentinel

Counter-Attack: 4 Melee and 8 Smite.

I hope I have all this right, just from an "I'm understanding this". perspective.
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:28 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

No useful icon from a rerolling Fireshadow during a save roll - that's actually a rather impressive feat. Huh.

The new "Die Roll Reolution" (p.10) was something I had to get used to as well. In fact, part of my army is built upon an error that did not take this resolution properly in account. It influences your counter attack in that re-rolls are resolved before SAI's. That would mean that you can cast Flashfire, but you would not get to use the reroll just yet, as that step has already passed. If army-health is your primary concern, then casting Resurrect Dead is probably your best bet. You still don't get to roll the new unit, but at least you've got a die back.

This also reminds me that I forgot to answer your question about why I got to promote my save rolling units a bit earlier: it was because of Wild Growth - it allows promotion during any non-maneuver roll.

Oh, there is a lousy silver lining though: you do get to double the save results (8th face) before they get converted to melee results, giving you 8 instead of 4 melee.


Feel free to change the spell you cast with the cantrip. I'll post my save roll in a few hours. First, I've got to babysit some chickens, apparently Neutral .


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reeser60504
dragonsteed



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:46 am GMT    Post subject: Clarifying... Reply with quote

If I understand you correctly, you're indicating that I cannot use the Cantrip that I rolled to cast a "useful" Flashfire, because of the order in which the dice get resolved.

So I dig where you're coming from...except in looking at the spell Flashfire on p31, it specificallty says that if the Flashfire is cast as the result of a Cantrip then I may re-roll a die for the current roll after spell resolution. So that makes me legal, right?

If that holds true, then the correction is to my Saves as Melee doubled from the 4 to 8, plus the 8 Smite.

I guess I presumed that since they were FOR a melee that they didn't double, but you're indicating via the Calculate Die Rolls on p10 that Terrain Effects which double the saves in step 5, then get converted as the "Count As" in step 7. (I need to sink this piece of the rules deeper into my knowledge).

Thanks as always.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:02 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you used both Flashfire spells correctly. The spell in this case overrides the usual roll sequence.
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Dolus
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:37 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
Yes, you used both Flashfire spells correctly. The spell in this case overrides the usual roll sequence.

I just want to add there text from the rules that spells this out explicitly. I looked it up when building my last army, because without it, flashfire and firewalker cantrips would have lost a lot of usability.

"If Flashfire is cast using a Cantrip you may re-roll a die for the current roll after resolving this spell."
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reeser60504
dragonsteed



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:19 am GMT    Post subject: Woo and Hoo! Reply with quote

These rules are starting to really come together for me.

Thanks as always.

Check out my post about how great I think things are going for DD on FB if you haven't.

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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:06 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's what I get for not actually looking up the spell in the first place like a derp. I'm really sorry about that. Embarassed


8 Smite:

Dracolich gets demoted to Vampire, a Vampire gets demoted to Ghast and a Ghoul gets sent to the DUA.

Save roll: against 8 melee:





Result: 15 saves


Reserve Phase: none
Spell and effect expiration: none

End my turn



the board:

Turn Sequence: reeser60504, DialFforFunky

Start of reeser60504's Turn 4
************************************************************************
reeser60504
BUA
reeser60504
DUA
reeser60504
Reserve Army
reeser60504
Summoning Pool
*
reeser60504
reeser60504

*Flash Fire* x 2 *Wind Walk*
reeser60504
Home Army
DialFforFunky's Home
Frontier

Controlled by reeser60504
reeser60504's Home
DialFforFunky
Home Army
DialFforFunky
DialFforFunky
*
DialFforFunky
Reserve Army
DialFforFunky
Summoning Pool
DialFforFunky
DUA
DialFforFunky
BUA



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reeser60504
dragonsteed



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:40 pm GMT    Post subject: To quote Prince Reply with quote

Let's get crazy. Let's get nuts!

Beginning Phase:
Expire Effects: Both of My Flashfires expire
Racial Abilities Step: None
Eighth Face Step: Summon Fire Drake to the Frontier
Dragon Attack Phase:
Army Response:


Claw for 6 Damage from the Drake

3 Cantrip...so I'm thinking that I can cast (my new fav spell) Flashfire and reroll the Genie



4 Saves (x2 for 8th Face) = 8 Saves
6 Melee + 4 for the Genie ID
4 Missile - do not matter

So by my count I get to save against the Claw damage and I kill the Dragon with like 12 Melee.

As a result of killing the Drake, I get to promote anyone that I can, which since I only have 3 2-pt Units in my DUA, those are the guys who will swap out. So out: Explorer x2 and a Guardian and in: Nightsbane x2 and a Sunflare

Post Dragon Attack my side of the board looks like:

Turn Sequence: Funky, Steve

************************************************************************
Funky
BUA
Funky
DUA
Funky
Reserve Army
Funky
Summoning Pool
*
Funky
Funky
Funky
Home Army
Steve's Home
Frontier
Funky's Home
Steve
Home Army
Steve
Flashfire
Steve
*
Steve
Reserve Army
Steve
Summoning Pool
Steve
DUA
Steve
BUA


I'll wait for you to confirm or correct...S
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:26 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems totally correct! Free army-wide promotions every turn at the cost of needing to kill a dragon - I’m interested in seeing where this goes.


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reeser60504
dragonsteed



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 12:23 am GMT    Post subject: After a tasty Fire Dragon dinner... Reply with quote

Army Phase:
First March: My Home Army
Maneuver: Turn up my Home Terrain to 5
Actions:
Melee, Missile, Magic:
No Action
Second March: My Campaign Army
Maneuver: None
Going against convention and taking a Magic Action:

Taking a Magic Action:


Flashfire is still in effect from during the Dragon Attack: Reroll the Genie:



Galeforce on Your Campaign Army

Magic Result: 4 Cantrip from Fireshadow, 3 Magic from Ashbringer and Sunflare and 2 Magic from Sunflare.

Total of 12

I cast Resurrect Dead x4 and bring back 3 Sunburst and a Shadowchaser.

End Phase:
Reinforce Step: None
Retreat Step: 1 Sunburst retreats to The Reserves
Expire Effects Step: None

EOT


My Board:

Turn Sequence: Funky, Steve

************************************************************************
Funky
BUA
Funky
DUA
Funky
Reserve Army
Funky
Summoning Pool
*
Funky
Funky
Funky
Home Army
Steve's Home
Frontier
Funky's Home
Steve
Home Army
Steve
Flashfire (til start of my turn)
Steve
*
Steve
Reserve Army
Steve
Summoning Pool
Steve
DUA
Steve
BUA
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 1992
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:07 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is but one small thing I still need: the minor terrain roll from your home.

Turn Sequence: reeser60504, DialFforFunky

Start of DialFforFunky's Turn 4
************************************************************************
reeser60504
BUA
reeser60504
DUA
reeser60504
Reserve Army
reeser60504
Summoning Pool
*
reeser60504
reeser60504

*Flash Fire*
reeser60504
Home Army
(?)
DialFforFunky's Home
Frontier

Controlled by reeser60504
reeser60504's Home
DialFforFunky
Home Army
DialFforFunky

*Galeforce*
DialFforFunky
*
DialFforFunky
Reserve Army
DialFforFunky
Summoning Pool
DialFforFunky
DUA
DialFforFunky
BUA


Spell and effect expiration: none
Initial Effects Phase: none
Dragon Attack Phase: none


First March: @ the Frontier
Minor Terrain: (One day I'll play an Undead ranged army. One day...)
maneuver:




results: 7 - 4 (Galeforce) = 3 Maneuver



Action: More melee!




Results: 4 Wild Growth, 22 melee

Wild growth: The save-rolling Revenant gets promoted to a Vampire. (When your roll is so good that you're left without targets for Regrowth-promotions #FirstWorldDragonDiceProblems...)



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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:25 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do know that Wild Growth allows promotion of multiple steps, correct? So you could bring back your Dracolich if you wanted.
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First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceâ„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceâ„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceâ„¢, and others (too many to count).
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:47 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoah, that is pretty massive! I think I got confused by

Quote:
To promote a unit, exchange it with a unit in your Dead Unit Area (or Summoning Pool for Dragonkin) of the same
race and one health larger.


And didn't attentively read the last sentence of the section. Thank you so much for the heads-up!

In this case I think I'm ok with losing one melee result and giving a Ghast a newfound purpose as a Dracolich.

New final result: 21 melee


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reeser60504
dragonsteed



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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 4:19 am GMT    Post subject: Minor (Terrain) Mistake Reply with quote

Minor Terrain Roll:



Counter Maneuver:



Maneuver Rebuffed: 15 Maneuvers


Save Roll:



Saves: 4 Gorgon, 4 Fireshadow (Fireminions), 2 Nightsbane

Flashfire does NOT apply.

All saves doubled for 8th face: Total 20 Saves

Send Shadowchaser to DUA.

Assuming that's all correct, we Counter-Attack.



Flashfire effect on the Ashbringer:



19 Melee and Flame (directed at 2 Skeletons)

Waiting for your Saves roll (-4 for Galeforce).

(Sorry for the delay. Son is graduating HS in two weeks so today was garage clean out day, then his prom.)
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 1992
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 5:09 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posts being late are never an issue, especially not when it concerns something as nice as your son graduating. Congratulations!

Resist burial Vs. Flame:



Result: One skeleton gets buried, one gets sent to the DUA

Save roll vs. 21 damage (your shields get doubled)





Result: Well... eh... ok? That's kind of shocking. I guess that's game?


What an awkward way to end the fight. Then again, I think this game was all but over for me. Though there were a few small opportunities that I could have waited for, it would have been an uphill climb. If you'd have turned up your home to 6 then I'd have moved all my forces to that terrain. Still, I'd have to oppose wind walks, so... yeah...

There was one crucial mistake that I made that probably cost me the game. My plan was to force you to come to me. Aggressively rolling up to 7 was a mistake though. Instead of turning the terrains to 1/7/4. I could have turned them to 1/5/6 and gone to your home. That way I'd have missed out on one 50% force melee attack, but I would have had at least one turn of 100% force vs. 100% force. The other option was 1/6/5, but I felt that it would not have been an option, as you'd just move to your home and wait for me to turn to 7.

The siege certainly was interesting. Never before did I field a force that could go toe-to-toe with an army sitting on 8th, and I was curious to see where it went. My hopes were that you'd army slowly crumble under the pressure, but you managed to match my great rolls with equally great rolls. The dragon was a nice touch, and might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

This Undead + Treefolk force was a blast to play, and I will certainly be using it again in the future. Hopefully I'll get to see a bit more Vampire action then, I'm curious to how strong that Convert SAI will be. It was also nice to see a Firewalker army that did uses some of the less min-max-y units. You commanded the the army very well, I can't remember any action that made me scratch my head. Well done! If you are up for another game, I'm all ears.



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