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The spells Palsy and Ash Storm

 
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marcus1679
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:20 pm GMT    Post subject: The spells Palsy and Ash Storm Reply with quote

I am unsure if this was ever asked before, so I figured I would do so in order to clarify things for myself at least.

There are two spells that I am unsure about something with them (this would also apply to any SAIs or other effects that do the same thing, if any). The spells are Palsy and Ash Storm. They both say "subtract X results from..." Obviously X equals the number of castings (ie if cast 3 times, then X equals 3). However, what I am not clear on is who chooses which results are subtracted? Is it the caster or the target?

The guy I have played a few games against (my only real "reliable" opponent) and I have currently guessed that the caster is the one who decides. Are we wrong in our guess?
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:14 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, in a strange way, both of your responses are wrong. If you look at page 10 of the latest rules, you will see a section titled "Calculate Roll Results". You calculate based on what you are rolling for. So if for example, you are rolling for maneuver, and you have 2 Ash Storms on the terrain where this is at, and a Palsy on this army, then you subtract 3 from that army's maneuver roll results.

Now if your question is: "Who decides which units' results are subtracted?" then that's a different answer. In that case it's the player that rolled the army that decides. Let's expand that answer above. Let's say you roll and you get 3 maneuvers from Swamp Stalkers, and 3 maneuvers from Goblins at the Swampland terrain this army is at. You would want to take all three minuses from the Swamp Stalker results, so you have 3 Goblin maneuvers left. Then you can double those 3 Goblin Maneuvers to 6. If you did it the other way, you would have only 3 maneuvers.

It has been pointed out that the way of calculating the second example is not called out in the current rules. That will be corrected in the next rules revision, which is due to be published no later than mid-June.
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:35 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck, can you clarify something for me. I was (apparently mistakenly) under the impression that spells able to be cast for increased effect used X in the cost.

Is there a reason certain spells have X and other spells don't, if you are able to cast most spells more than once at the same target?
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Dolus
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:03 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing you didn't cover are combination rolls, such as a dragon attach for instance.

In the past, in a combination roll where ash storm or palsy are at, the acting player decides which results to subtract, but it just still be from the results their rolling for.

So for a dragon attack where you're rolling for saves, melee, and missile, let's say you roll 10 melee and 3 missile, but there are 3 ash storms present, you can subtract 3 from missile she still slay the dragon. But if you only had 2 missile, you would have to subtract at least 1 melee.
I believe that's how it used to be and I don't think anything has changed.



@stormy,
In the rules under spells > casting cost, X is used to refer to number of health or amount of damage. Spells like palsy are stackable but don't inflict damage or affect number of health, so no X in the cost.

I think this is confusing. Because you effectively get X effect for casting the spell X times, but it's not in the cost like it is for other spells that stack.
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:06 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Dolus: Thank you. I just think it looks odd the way it is. I'm not sure the intent of adding X in there. I think, for instance, Finger of Death worked just fine the old way.

Edit: So then you can still stack TRtM as well, right?
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Dolus
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:26 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, still stackable.

Back to the Spells page of the rules, page 29. Multiple effects are cumulative. I don't have it directly in front of me, but it's something like that.

So you'll have multiple TRtM and they are cumulative.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:16 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The X casting cost is something that will be revisited on the next version of the rules. I agree it's confusing, and not very consistent.
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Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceâ„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceâ„¢, and others (too many to count).
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stormywaters
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:19 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
The X casting cost is something that will be revisited on the next version of the rules. I agree it's confusing, and not very consistent.


Oh, perfect. Thanks, Chuck!
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marcus1679
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:20 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Chuck, for clarifying the original post. And thanks to the others who replied in that regard as well.

I think part of the problem is that my friend and I have played various games where it's the spell's caster that decides the various things about it (target, range, choice of effect if there are multiple ones, etc). So, we applied that logic to the effects of Palsy and Ash Storm. Obviously we were wrong. Oh well. Live and learn (in theory anyway).
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