SFR, Inc.

anset

Hi Chuck,

Maybe I missed this discussion, but why has this changed?

Before, both dragons had one icon you wanted to roll: the Wyrm had the treasure box and the drake the two wings.

The Wyrm gave an active bonus (promotion) on only one side, the drake gave no bonus but had two dice sides that made it fly away.

I'm not mentioning the belly here since both dragons have it and so it makes no difference.

I always found this a good balance. Now the drake hurts you with its wings too...

I'd like to know why this was done?

Wkr,

Anset

chuckpint · Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:43 am GMT Post subject:

Most games, people bring all wyrms. Why? because on the average wyrms did more damage. And with three tails, have a slightly better chance of getting breath. Now drakes get slightly more damage on the average, but with only two tails, have a slight lessor chance of breath. Here's how the numbers work out:

	Drake	Wyrm
average damage	5.2	5.0
chance of breath	9.8%	10.6%

As you can see, this much better balances the two dragons. Our goal has always been to make all the dice as playable as possible.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

ddicerc · Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:18 am GMT Post subject:

If you're fighting a Drake, the wing is still a preferable roll to anything else except Belly. It does less damage than Claws or Jaws, has no extra effect like Breath, doesn't reroll like Tail, and even if you can't kill the dragon it flies away at the end of the turn. We've tried this in our home games, and it really does balance out the dragons better. Of course, now you have to think which you prefer-slightly more damage on the average, or the better chance at rerolls and Breath.
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Steve "DDice" Braun
The Diceman's Gaming Pages: http://ddicerc.weebly.com
2014-2015 U.S. National Champion
(Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...)

DEEPBLUEB2 · Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:50 am GMT Post subject:

The Drake's Wings have spikes,
these spikes are what cause the damage when it flys away. Cool

KilljoyKing · Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:15 am GMT Post subject: Undreki

I always thought the idea of a Drake was to be the dragon you didn't want to summon. Y'know, it was brought along when you had no plans on dragon summoning and you didn't want another one being used against you by the enemy.

With the Blue and Green breaths changed and now the wings, you always have to bring the hurt on now....
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Dragon Dice Musing and Such @ Reality's End

chuckpint · Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:27 am GMT Post subject:

Well, as so many people have pointed out, the game is called Dragon Dice. So why have a wimpy dragon?
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

DEEPBLUEB2 · Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:08 pm GMT Post subject:

I just looked at a painting by Paul Jaquays called Dragon Mountain,
the painting is of a Red Drake,
and if anyone ever was wondering if a Dragon's Wings could cause 5 damage,
well..... get back to me after you have seen the painting Laughing

anset · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:40 am GMT Post subject:

Hey,

If the decision is taken to change the drakes behavior, so be it.

I just wonder why it happened now. When the 2.0 rules came out and it was said that those rules would go in the new starters, I assumed (yeah, me bad) that that was the end of the rule changes.

Will there be a moment when the 2.x rules become finalized?
Or is it the intention to keep on making changes to the rules?

If I'm going to run a tournament, I would very much like to know the rules better that the people participating in the tournament. If these changes can pop up at any given moment, this can/will cause problems...

Wkr,

Anset

chuckpint · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:23 am GMT Post subject:

A bit of (recent) history. We had the starters all ready to go in June. So the rules were final. The Army cards were done. The box artwork was done.

Then we get the word from GPI (the company that makes the dice for us). They are too busy to deal with our (small for them) order. So we get put off for a couple of months.

I take a look thru all old rulings, rules questions, etc. for the last 8 or so years. After looking at it for 2 weeks, I come up with a few things that were still open. So the SFR rules committee talks about those few things. Most are tabled because they are things we can't do anything about with the starters. But the old debate about drakes vs wyrms gets some attention. We decide to make drakes more usable.

The end result is the minor rule change to wings.

The starter rules will be final when the order is placed with GPI. I'm hoping that will be by the end of this month. At that point, the rules cannot change. We can add rules clarifications to the website, but cannot change the printed rules that will be in the new starters.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

DEEPBLUEB2 · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:42 am GMT Post subject:

anset · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:12 am GMT Post subject:

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for the history. Smile

Can you let us know when the rules are indeed finalized?

I'm sure that even after that date, there will be other things people will want to change, and there is no real problem about that, except for tournament organizers.

Maybe SFR can decide on some rules concerning rules changes?
Maybe keep the "final rules" final for a year or so, and have the newest changes in a "beta" version of the rules...

I know I could just say that we will be playing with rules version 2.xx, but in that case, those rules should be available from the official sfr web site...

Anyway, I am trying to org anise a long term tournament that would run during one year and it would be nice to use one "official" rules package for all the tournaments.

wkr,

Anset

anset · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:13 am GMT Post subject:

Hi Jim,

Nice story Smile

However, my point was about the tournament organizers, not the players.

I am sure a number of players went to the organization complaining about how they did not know about the change.

Something that would nice to avoid, if possible.

Wkr,

Anset

chuckpint · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:39 am GMT Post subject:

The latest are up on the SFR website. It's at version 2.1a. The history of the changes is on the forum.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).