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geoffhanna dragonfoal
Joined: 14 May 2011 Posts: 22 Location: Delicious

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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:44 pm GMT Post subject: How do I value this die? |
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I won a prototype blue dragonzealot at GenCon last year. It has green printing.
I am using it in my army at the moment, but am curious, how many "Chuck Pint Points" is this die worth? |
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cliffwiggs SFR Treasurer Chief Wheedler SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 10794 Location: Cumming, GA - USA

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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:38 pm GMT Post subject: |
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That is a very subjective question.
That die is not quite like any other dice that we have produced.
Most of the dice we've produced are readily available and they have points based on their rarity and the cost of the product. i.e. 1 in 40 at $7.95 per box.
Some dice are true prototypes where less than 4 and usually only 1 exist.
These dice are normal Zealots, they just have a special ink color. What makes them unique is that you can't purchase one. You have to win it (or something similar). So the value is very subjective. They aren't as rare as a prototype but more useful as they can actually be played with. _________________ Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
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Ironneth the DragonMaster dragonmount
Joined: 10 Jun 2011 Posts: 29 Location: Kentucky

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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:50 am GMT Post subject: |
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| i would rate it pretty high. as cliff said the die is only available at cons. I would rate by averaging the rares. (average does not include the UF). around 120cp. But that's my personal opinion. now i would also so say that if you had all five that value as a set would would be much better. i would value the set at around 1100 cp. because you would have to win at five cons to get them. thats three forgecons and two gencons. inconceivable! |
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shoesan uncommon
Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 641 Location: PA

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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:35 am GMT Post subject: |
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| Ironneth the DragonMaster wrote: |
you would have to win at five cons to get them |
Counting the Dragoncrusader, there are actually 6 different dice. _________________ Shoe |
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geoffhanna dragonfoal
Joined: 14 May 2011 Posts: 22 Location: Delicious

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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:42 am GMT Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone for the info.
I'm not going to trade it, it is too useful in my current army and to be honest, 100 points is nothing special.
I really have a problem with the existing points system. I understand that it is pure math based on die production numbers. Who could argue with that?
But that is purely a Supply calculation. What about Demand?
I guess there isn't a big enough DD trade market to derive valid demand patterns? |
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thudthwacker dragonmount
Joined: 07 Jul 2012 Posts: 48 Location: Northern NJ

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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:57 am GMT Post subject: |
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| Newbie Alert, but: Chuck Pint Points? |
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geoffhanna dragonfoal
Joined: 14 May 2011 Posts: 22 Location: Delicious

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stormywaters rare
Joined: 22 May 2011 Posts: 1403

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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:30 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| geoffhanna wrote: | I really have a problem with the existing points system. I understand that it is pure math based on die production numbers. Who could argue with that?
But that is purely a Supply calculation. What about Demand?
I guess there isn't a big enough DD trade market to derive valid demand patterns? |
The numbers used on Chuck's page are what he personally values dice at. It is not reflective of the community as a whole, and I personally don't like using his system for that very reason.
That being said, his points do take into account demand for dice. For instance, the Feral rares are all the same "rarity", but Wolverine-Folk have higher value, because they are more widely wanted. This isn't always true, and I think most (if not all) commons and uncommons are the same value.
So in the end, dice are worth what you think they're worth. If you're willing to pay an extra $5 for a die, that's your value. There isn't a large enough market to pull from to see actual real-world market data.
What I'd like to see is a system like Magic Traders, which has a price guide that pulls sales from eBay and averages them to come up with pricing data. They have high price, low price, average price, standard deviation, etc. If we had something like that running for a few months, we'd start to see a real price guide. |
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shoesan uncommon
Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 641 Location: PA

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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:18 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| stormywaters wrote: |
What I'd like to see is a system like Magic Traders, which has a price guide that pulls sales from eBay and averages them to come up with pricing data. They have high price, low price, average price, standard deviation, etc. If we had something like that running for a few months, we'd start to see a real price guide. |
This would be very nice. I also collected D&D minis when they were out. There is a website that still tracks their values too. Its awesome!
BUT... it just won't work for Dragon Dice. The D&D minis, and probably the Magic cards as well, all sell as singles on Ebay. Sure you can buy by the lot... but you can also buy by the single. Dragon Dice single sales just don't happen on Ebay. How can you track the price of a Lich or a Tako, if they never come up for sale on Ebay? Sure, you can get them in a lot of Dragon Dice... but never as a single. If a lot of 65 dice sells on ebay for $20, how do you assign the values per die? You can't. Only a handful of dice ever come up as singles on Ebay.
What I have been thinking about is something like a Dragon Dice marketplace. Its part of a bigger software application I would like to see, but I dont know if I will ever get around to making it reality. But in this marketplace, I envision a light weight inventory program that resides on your computer. You fill in all kinds of info... quanties, prices you want to sell dice for, buy dice for, what you "value" your dice for (because that can be different that a buy or sell price), what you paid... as much info as you want to fat-finger in there. Then, the program can, if you want, connect to a database where others have similar files from this program. If you allow, other people could see your inventory as a webpage, similar to what Chuck has on his site. There would also be other applications on the database server that can take all the files that people add and compute values based on what the files have in them. It could also assist in making trades happen by allowing you quick access to see who has dice you need, who wants dice you are trying to trade away, etc. You could propose trades through it, and if you eventually get an agreed upon trade with someone, the program could track the trade through receipt and "feedback" for each party, thus creating a "good trader" list to boot. The algorithms in this software could weigh actual trades or sales completed through the software a little more heavily, since there is no better indication of true value than what two people execute.
I have been thinking of creating a Dragon Dice ontology, to support a data model for this kind of application. Beyone trading, I would like to see army compostion, dice graphs... lots of things really... that an ontology would enable. There is a lot of cool data associated with Dragon Dice, and it would be neat to create something like that. Then, others could develop applications (like the inventory program, or an army builder app) that could connect to the DB server and use the data elements it would need.
Shoe _________________ Shoe |
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cliffwiggs SFR Treasurer Chief Wheedler SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 10794 Location: Cumming, GA - USA

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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:23 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| shoesan wrote: |
Counting the Dragoncrusader, there are actually 6 different dice. |
In some ways that is the easiest to get. Its reserved for volunteers at conventions, so all those coming to gencon to help out, make sure MissTiffany gives you one* before you leave.
*Note: technically you get one black ink die, a crusader or a slayer or a lord _________________ Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
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chuckpint White Dragon SFR President Site Admin
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 9187 Location: Evanston, IL

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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:31 pm GMT Post subject: |
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Shoe: the DDAssist program has a lot of what you are describing already in it. I've got the source code for it (It was written by Bruce Parrello about 15 years ago). If you want it, let me know. _________________ You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count). |
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shoesan uncommon
Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 641 Location: PA

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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:44 am GMT Post subject: |
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Can you burn it to a disk and bring it to GenCon? _________________ Shoe |
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Skawilly rare SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 21 Mar 2011 Posts: 1322 Location: Seattle, WA

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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:25 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Counting the Dragoncrusader, there are actually 6 different dice. |
Earned mine at PAX last year. The local boss worked me over 30 hours in 2.5 days. But its cool looking to have the TSR Lord/Slayer with the SFR Non-retail Sader. Worth every minute. _________________ Will
"There is more philosophy in a bottle of wine than all the books in all the world" - Some random wine cap - |
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