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ddicerc
rare
Public Relations Director
Esteemed Author
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3238
Location: East Brunswick, NJ, USA
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 Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:04 pm GMT Post subject: Strategy Guide |
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Given that producing something along the lines of the DCM is pretty much out of the question for SFR right now, what could be done to provide some basic strategy hints for new players? I'm not talking about the rules, but helping players who've gotten a basic grasp of the rules up to another level of competition. I read posts here about players winning 90+% of their games, and I realize that there must be a huge disparity in army building and management skills between them and their opponents. The SFR site has ideas for how to play each race, but most tournament armies are multi-racial to a greater or lesser degree.
If someone with extensive experience would like to write up something for online use, I would be happy to post it as a reference on the DDRC web site if you do not have a site of your own. I already have some old articles by Bruce Parrello that still have some valid points, but updated strategy articles would be nice for the new players we're getting on board.
_________________
Steve "DDice" Braun
The Diceman's Gaming Pages: http://ddicerc.weebly.com
2014-2015 U.S. National Champion
(Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...) |
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chuckpint
White Dragon
SFR President
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 9187
Location: Evanston, IL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:34 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Actually the descriptions of how to use a race on the SFR website are sadly out of date or missing. I'd welcome anyone to do new writeups. Just send them directly to me. |
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deputyfife
common
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 322
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:54 pm GMT Post subject: |
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Actually, speaking as a new player who is still very green in terms of experience and strategy  , I would find it equally as helpful to have some sample armies. Things such as past Championships and runners-up, or what people are currently playing, possibly with some brief explanations.
Even if the army lists are something that would be hard for a beginner to put together (say you had 2 trolls, a red DM, and a Magi), just seeing how some other people have put together armies, and why, would be great. |
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Guyon
Newbie
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:33 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| That would be great to see past winning and runner up teams. Also any commentary on why it works would be a bonus. |
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DEEPBLUEB2
monster
Stockholder
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 7894
Location: Des Plaines, IL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:32 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| deputyfife wrote: | Actually, speaking as a new player who is still very green in terms of experience and strategy , I would find it equally as helpful to have some sample armies. Things such as past Championships and runners-up, or what people are currently playing, possibly with some brief explanations.
Even if the army lists are something that would be hard for a beginner to put together (say you had 2 trolls, a red DM, and a Magi), just seeing how some other people have put together armies, and why, would be great. |
| Guyon wrote: | | That would be great to see past winning and runner up teams. Also any commentary on why it works would be a bonus. |
I felt the same way, I wanted to try an army that won the World Championship, so I went to the SFR website and found some
information about armies and past winning armies.
I chose Robert Kircher's 1997 World Champion army.
| SFR wrote: | Mixed Swamp Stalker/Firewalker army:
14 Bog Runners
8 Sunflares
2 Sunbursts
4 Speed Slippers
The Bog Runners work to run a swampland up to an Eighth face, while the Firewalker mages seek to help them out with Wind Walk spells, while at the same time whittling their opponents down with offensive spells such as Firebolt and Lightning Strike. This army won the World Championship in 1997. |
I liked the army, but I wanted to tweak it since
there were new rule changes.(no mutation pool is one change)
I might add also that I never tested the army before playing it.
So this is my "Runner Up" 2006 World Championship Army: 2nd Place
Home:Swampland City
Sunburst
Campaign:Flatland City
Dragonlord (Clear Black Ink)
Fireshadow
Sunflare x4
Sunburst
Horde:
Marsh Swimmer x3
Dragonne Rider x3
Bog Runner x2
Green Speed Slippers x4
Blue Drake
Blue Wyrm
Blue Dragonsteed
Blue Dragonmount x2
Red Dragonmount
Blue Dragonfoal
Red Dragonfoal x2
4 Villages (1 of each color)
Strategies:
The first thing this army can do is maneuver, (incredible numbers, I never lost a maneuver roll with the horde)
and if in a swampland, the Swamp Stalkers can save tremendously.
I bumped up the Bog Runners to Marsh Swimmers because there are a few spells that target commons.
The Dragonlord was mainly used for Pathing.(all 5 colors of magic were available)
The Sunbursts and Sunflares were there to Lightning Strike and to Elemental Blast spells.
The Dragonne Riders, besides being able to create huge maneuvers,
have Scorching Touch and Intangibility.(I think this change made the army win the maneuver rolls.)
The Swampstalkers IDs can cast Mire, although that did not ever happen.
The Firewalkers have Terrain Flight.
I did not really have a major game plan other than to see how far I could go in a World Championship, with a winning army.
If I were to make any changes,
I think I would work in an Inferno,
because I needed to promote several times,
(City 8th face and killing a Dragon)
and the army just did not have enough ability to promote,
except in dragonkin,
Also the natural ability to cast 6 red or green is perfect for magic.
(Tidal wave,Wall of Fog,Dancing Lights.)
If enough green magic.....12 green(Scaders need 6 green to cast a Tidal Wave)
Tidal Wave/Flash Flood combo could turn down a Terrain
twice in one turn. 
I would also use a Swampland Temple, instead of a Swampland City,
the Temple (on an 8th face) would protect the army
against Black/Death spells,
and also Lightning Strikes could result in a burial with the Temple.
(on an 8th face)
One peculiar thing about this army is that the Speed Slippers are green.
(Firewalkers can not carry the magic items)
At first I thought that might be a problem,
but I thought I should not mess with success,
and it turned out that the Swamp Stalkers had no problem saving.
I have always used Firewalkers and a Dragonlord in World Championships.
Using a Clear Black Ink 10th Anniversary Dragonlord in a World Championship was fun.
So back to the main topic, "Past Championships and Runners-up armies"
I have contacted many of the Previous World Champions by Email,
and they all were very helpful.
Mark A. Wiker's website
Mark A.Wiker's Titles and Championship Armies
I'm considering trying Scott Cobbs' 2005 World Champion Army
It is awesome!!!
Best of Luck to Everyone,
Have Fun,
I am sure someone will be happy I posted this. 
Jim Rayborn |
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DEEPBLUEB2
monster
Stockholder
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 7894
Location: Des Plaines, IL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:35 pm GMT Post subject: |
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Sealed Box 2nd Place GenCon 2007
Sealed Box:
Coral Elf/ Lava Elf
Home: Coastland City
Coral Giant
Enchanter
Conjurer
Trooper x2
Fighter x4
Horseman
Campaign: Highland Temple
Drider
Assassin
Warlock x2
Duelist
Adept
Fusilier x3
Horde:
Scout
Ivory Wyrm
Blue Wyrm
Additional Terrains:
Flatland City
Swampland Temple |
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DEEPBLUEB2
monster
Stockholder
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 7894
Location: Des Plaines, IL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:35 pm GMT Post subject: |
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Mark A. Wiker's
‘99 Dragon Dice Battlefest 1st Place (Origins)
I tried Mark's Battlefest Army,
I made some minor changes
The main change was to add a Dragonlord,
in-case I had to face a White Dragon.
Battlefest GenCon 2007 2nd Place
· Home - Coastland City
Fireshadow
· Campaign - Coastland Standing Stones
Troll x2
Fireshadow x 4 Changed (Fireshadow x 3 and a Dragonlord Clear with Black Ink)
Gold Medallion
· Horde
Troll
Fireshadow x6
· Blue Wyrm x3
· Blue Dragonkin Champion x2 Changed (Blue Dragonkin Champion and Red Dragonkin
Champion Blue Ink)
Blue Dragonsteed x1
Blue Dragonmount x3 Changed (Blue Dragonmount x 2 and a Red Dragonmount)
Blue Dragonfoal x3 Changed (Blue Dragonfoal x 2 and a Red Dragonfoal)
· Coastland Village
Flatland Village
Highland Village
Swampland Village |
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DEEPBLUEB2
monster
Stockholder
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 7894
Location: Des Plaines, IL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:46 am GMT Post subject: |
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I'm really proud of this army...
Rolling Thunder
World's 2008 3rd Place
Home: Highland City
Campaign: Highland City
Red Dragonstaff
7x Adept
3x Sunflare
Horde:
2x Dragon Knight (Black Ink)
8x Pony Rider
4x Red Speed Slippers
Summoning Pool
2 Dwarf Hybrid Wyrms
Red Dragonkin Champion
Red Dragonchamp
Red Dragonsentry
3x Red Dragonfoal
1 Village of each type
Ok here's how this army works.....
the Dragonstaff summons the two hybrid Dwarf dragons..
and rolls a magic...
this magic can be used for lava elf or firewalker magic...
plus once the pony riders arrive and scalder dragon knights..
those races as well.
The ID can cast any race of red.
So reforge magic item can be cast by the Dragon Staff,
it can add to fearful flames,
it can add to firebolt,
or it can be used to summon another dragon.
The army consistently rolled 14 red.
Enough for the two Hybrid Dragons.
Dancing Lights/Ash storm was useful as well.
The summon Dragon Sai cannot be dispelled,
nor can dancing lights affect it.
Now since breath does not affect a Dragon Slayer or it's army,
they become the focus of the magic.
So the dragons have been summoned...and now the slayer must be addressed.
The 3 Sunflares will almost always be able to roll a lightning strike,
although the adepts will have trouble getting enough magic to finger of death a monster...or a slayer..
they can cast fearful flames...
even if the Slayer Saves...it must save again or go into the reserves...
this takes the slayer out of play for the dragon attack..
thus breath can now work on the army...
which one breath kills 10 and 5 have to save again or be buried.
The Dragon Knights have fly...
which deals damage back when saving against an initial melee attack...
and is doubled via minor terrain or 8th face...
so one unit with 4 fly icons deals 8 damage...
this did happen a few times...
also the Dragon Knight can double it's ID...
if red...Volcanic Eruption...
Green Tidal Wave...
and if with the Dragon staff...it can cast volcanic eruption if the Id is rolled...
and it cannot be doubled.
The Pony Riders double maneuvers at highland..
IDs then could path...
or add Earthen Armour to the Dragon Kights.
So I never lost a maneuver roll....
this means I went first...
by going first...
the dragons were the weapon of choice...
breath was the focus...
and dismissal of the Slayers was then the focus.
Inspired by Mark A. Wiker
| Mark A. Wiker wrote: | 96 1st Dragon Dice National Champion (Dexcon)
· Home – Highland City
Adept
· Campaign – Highland City
Adept x9
Sunburst x2
· Horde
Pony Rider x12
· Red Wyrm
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DEEPBLUEB2
monster
Stockholder
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 7894
Location: Des Plaines, IL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:02 am GMT Post subject: |
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http://sfr-inc.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=28579#28579
Battlefest Army GenCon 2009
Third place
Twin Spirals:
4x Death Mages
6x Sunflares
10x Magus
16x Sunburst
Set up:
Home:Coastland City
Sunburst
Campaign:Coastland Standing Stones (Dark)
4x Death Mage
4x Magus
5x Sunburst
2x Sunflare
Horde:
10x Sunburst
6x Magus
4x Sunflare
Summoning Pool:
1 White Drake
1 Coral Elf Hybrid Drake
Blue Dragonkin Champion (Marbled)
Blue Dragonchamp
Blue Dragonsteed
2x Blue Dragonmount
2x Blue Dragonfoal
Black Dragonmount
2x Black Dragonfoal
1 Village of each type
This army is a kicked up magic army that won Battlefest last year.
As I was hoping...
the extra magic worked out fantastic. |
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DEEPBLUEB2
monster
Stockholder
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 7894
Location: Des Plaines, IL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:03 am GMT Post subject: |
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The Dark Gryphon:
World's Third 2009 GenCon
Home: Coastland City (Dark)
Sunburst
Campaign: Coastland Tower (Dark)
Dragonlord x 2 (Clear Black Ink)
Ash Bringer
Sunflare x 3
Horde:
Gryphon (Dark)
Dragonne Knight x2 (One Dark)
Dragonne Rider x2
Gold Medllion
Summoning Pool
Firewalker (Red/Blue) Hybrid Drake
Firewalker (Red/Blue) Hybrid Wyrm
1 Village of Each
Blue Dragonkin Champion (Marbled)
Blue Dragonsteed
Blue Dragonmount
Blue Dragonfoal x3 |
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yvesvanherp
common
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 144
Location: Wespelaar
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:49 pm GMT Post subject: Re: Strategy Guide |
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| ddicerc wrote: | Given that producing something along the lines of the DCM is pretty much out of the question for SFR right now, what could be done to provide some basic strategy hints for new players? I'm not talking about the rules, but helping players who've gotten a basic grasp of the rules up to another level of competition. I read posts here about players winning 90+% of their games, and I realize that there must be a huge disparity in army building and management skills between them and their opponents. The SFR site has ideas for how to play each race, but most tournament armies are multi-racial to a greater or lesser degree.
If someone with extensive experience would like to write up something for online use, I would be happy to post it as a reference on the DDRC web site if you do not have a site of your own. I already have some old articles by Bruce Parrello that still have some valid points, but updated strategy articles would be nice for the new players we're getting on board. |
After having left the DD scene for quite some years, I wanted to ask if the website is still active, Ddi?
Kind regards from Belgium! 
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That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die! (H.P. Lovecraft) |
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ddicerc
rare
Public Relations Director
Esteemed Author
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3238
Location: East Brunswick, NJ, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:03 am GMT Post subject: |
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Yes and no. I still have it up, although the address has changed (see my sig line). I haven't had much time to update it lately. When my current second job ends sometime this year, I might have time to work on it some more.
_________________
Steve "DDice" Braun
The Diceman's Gaming Pages: http://ddicerc.weebly.com
2014-2015 U.S. National Champion
(Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...) |
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yvesvanherp
common
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 144
Location: Wespelaar
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:50 pm GMT Post subject: |
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Thanks, I've put it under my "favourites" and I'll keep a look on it!
Jobs can be asking a lot of people, glad I will retire in 12 weeks!
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That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die! (H.P. Lovecraft) |
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cliffwiggs
SFR Treasurer
Chief Wheedler
SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 10794
Location: Cumming, GA - USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:07 am GMT Post subject: |
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| ddicerc wrote: | | When my current second job ends sometime this year, I might have time |
Time? Free time? Enough to come to Gencon?
_________________
Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
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yvesvanherp
common
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 144
Location: Wespelaar
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:38 pm GMT Post subject: |
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I really need to be there one time too. Only not in 2010, it won't work. Maybe in 2011, if my wife can get her vacation then!
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That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die! (H.P. Lovecraft) |
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cliffwiggs
SFR Treasurer
Chief Wheedler
SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 10794
Location: Cumming, GA - USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:02 am GMT Post subject: |
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| yvesvanherp wrote: | | Maybe in 2011, if my wife can get her vacation then! |
If you can make the trip I'll help show ya around. 
we can give a new meaning to the 'WORLDS' tournament with some non-north america players.
_________________
Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
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yvesvanherp
common
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 144
Location: Wespelaar
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:43 am GMT Post subject: |
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| cliffwiggs wrote: | | yvesvanherp wrote: | | Maybe in 2011, if my wife can get her vacation then! |
If you can make the trip I'll help show ya around.
we can give a new meaning to the 'WORLDS' tournament with some non-north america players. |
That would be extremely nice! And very much appreciated!
_________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die! (H.P. Lovecraft) |
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Jula
dragonsteed
Stockholder
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 94
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:53 am GMT Post subject: |
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Hi!
| Quote: | Home: Coastland City (Dark)
Sunburst |
What's the goal of dividing an army like this? I don't really see the purpose of leaving only one single unit at home while the rest of the army is campaining or "hording"... Could you please clue me up? Probably I do it wrong, however I always leave most of my forces at home and/or send them to the border terrain, while my horde army usually consists just one unit.
I guess it always depends on the type of the army, etc., but I find this division a bit strange.
Thanks in advance,
Jula |
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cliffwiggs
SFR Treasurer
Chief Wheedler
SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 10794
Location: Cumming, GA - USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:05 am GMT Post subject: |
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| Jula wrote: |
What's the goal of dividing an army like this? |
These is no 'wrong' way, just a strategy based on what you expect your opponent to do.
First, you have to divide your initial forces into three pieces. Rather than divide them evenly, many players do a min/max approach. the idea is to maximize the number of units at terrains where you want them.
if I have 18 health vs your 12 health. I have an advantage.
if I have 17 health vs your 12 health. I have an advantage.
if I have 1 health vs your 12 health. I have a disadvantage.
This is two advantages vs one disadvantage, you may kill the one common, but I can easily bring him back to life.
So that's why people divide into 1/17/18 its very common here in the US.
The second thing is where do they put the single common. you can agree that 17 and 18 are basically the same.
so you could put the common at your home. this is most common in a multi player game. it gives you the most flexibility to place your armies at other terrains.
You could put the common at the frontier. This usually means that you really want to win the horde roll and you want to capture your home terrain (the only terrain you are guaranteed to have in the game)
you could put the common at the horde. This means you want your home, but you don't want to decide who goes first. I've played lots of games like this where both hordes are just a common.
A third point to army placement is a 'guessing game' with your opponent. Many players split their army into half attack and half defense. or half cav/melee and half magic. Mages are not typically good at combat and a terrain is more likely to come up in melee than magic or missile. so sometimes you will place a heavy melee army where you expect your opponents mages to be. thus you can try to get a good solid hit on them before they can retreat from you.
These are just some reasons that people play the way they do. This is a strategy game, so knowing what your opponent will do before they do it allows you to react before they do it.
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Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
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Jula
dragonsteed
Stockholder
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 94
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:42 am GMT Post subject: |
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Hi!
Thanks for the quick answer!
| Quote: | | you could put the common at the horde. This means you want your home, but you don't want to decide who goes first. I've played lots of games like this where both hordes are just a common. |
We usually play like this. Thus it's quite strange for me to see such a way of division where you put the sole unit to your home terrain, since - as you also stated - the home terrain is the only terrain surely being brought to the game by you.
So after separating your army in accordance with the 1-17-18 routine, it's clear that it's up to you and your strategy where you are going to put your units. What seems still a bit odd for me is that I see no reason to give the home terrain up. (Since leaving only one guard at home is equivalent to giving the home terrain up...at least in my eyes.) But I have to admit here that I am neither a good player, nor an experienced one, so I might find this odd due to my ignorance.
Thanks again,
Jula |
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