SFR, Inc.

[chuckpint]

Shell seems to be too powerful. That icon comes up and it stops an attack with 2 stun, 1 wound, and 3 pluses. Yes, it's happened. So we were thinking about making Shell be a deflect with 1 or 2 built-in pluses. Still able to stop most attacks, but a really powerful one would force you to add some pluses, or other deflects. Also we talked about the Buckler being similar to the Shell (deflect with pluses), but the Shield able to block everything no matter how powerful. That would make those two items different.

Stinger has a couple of problems. First and biggest, is the way it's currently worded, if you use it on a daemon that is immune to your poison, you cause a stun, the poison has no effect, and then the stinger is wounded. Ouch, you give a stun and take a wound. Why would anyone use that? Second is the on-going poison. You have to remember somehow that the poison effect is there and apply it every turn. So the thought is that you can use the stinger as simply a stun, and then the attacking player decides whether or not to inject poison. If the stinger injects poison, it's stunned, and the other player (if not immune to that poison) takes a wound (that's in addition to the first stun). So if the poison is used, the defender takes a stun and a wound, the attacking player's stinger is stunned. So no on-going effect that has to be tracked.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[ddicerc]

Were any of these tried at GenCon? Both seem reasonable to me (although we haven't played with items since we were trying out various body part combos).

Would Shield still have the stun attack, or would the fact that it now blocks anything and is differentiated from Buckler be enough?
_________________
Steve "DDice" Braun
The Diceman's Gaming Pages: http://ddicerc.weebly.com
2014-2015 U.S. National Champion
(Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...)

[piMaster]

[Dolus]

Both very good points, and those sound like potentially good solutions. The shell being as powerful as it is was a bit irritating, and discourages using dice such as spikes since you can have so many dice countered by one die by itself.

And I experienced that issue in my online game with the stinger where I would apply minuses to my stingers because I risked wounding my stinger and only getting a stun out of it. Another possible fix to this is to simply not allow that part of the stinger to take affect if the opponent is immune. It feels almost like a patch, but since you can't be poisoned, simply not allowing the stinger to break off and poison the enemy is an option.

[Skawilly]

The easiest change to shell would be that it can block any attack. That will still be unique to the game. So if I use an eye and have one + on it then I would need a shell with 2 +'s. All the same if I attack with a sweep then then shell could block that or if I attack with a deflect with one + I could block with a shell with one +. Its still good and does something unique and yet its not seriously powerful.
_________________
Will
"There is more philosophy in a bottle of wine than all the books in all the world" - Some random wine cap -

[chuckpint]

You are describing a deflect. The Arm does that, it can stop any type of attack. The Shell currently does a lot more. It stops any attack irregardless of type, bonuses, and other addons.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[Skawilly]

OH, I had no clue the arm did that. Hey come on man you guys gave me 1 hour of training and then told the crowds to have at it.
_________________
Will
"There is more philosophy in a bottle of wine than all the books in all the world" - Some random wine cap -

[cliffwiggs]

An hour really? Next year I'll have to cut that training time in half.
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Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99

[Dolus]

Skawilly got training?

[cliffwiggs]

Well, He lay on a bed while I did a demo in the hotel room for all the volunteers.
_________________
Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99

[Skawilly]

WHAT A BUNCH OF MALARKEY!!!

To bad this is a public forum...
_________________
Will
"There is more philosophy in a bottle of wine than all the books in all the world" - Some random wine cap -

[cliffwiggs]

[cliffwiggs]

OK, back on track.

Below is a proposal based on all the verbal and written conversations for each of the symbols being discussed.

Compare these against existing die like Pincer and Mace to see if you'd use both in different circumstances.

In summary: Shell is nerfed. Buckler is an updated Arm. Shield is an upgraded Shell. Stinger removes the enduring effect and has an optional part. Dart is an upgraded Stinger.

Note: these may need to be tweaked to match the wording style of all other symbols (damage, attack, etc)

Shell: A daemon's Shell is a Deflect with a built-in plus (boost)!

Buckler: The Buckler can be used as either a stun attack with a built-in plus (boost) or a deflect with a built-in plus (boost).

Shield: The Shield can be to avoid one attack regardless of that attack's damage, boosts, or type (even a ray or sweep).

Stinger: The Stinger is a stun attack. If it is not defended, the attacker can choose to inject poison into its victim. If poison is injected, then the Stinger is immediately stunned and the victim suffers a wound in addition to the stun.(If not immune to the poison).

Dart: The Dart is a wound attack. If it is not defended, the Dart injects poison into its victim and is immediately dropped (stunned). If the victim is not immune to the poison, they suffer an additional wound.

Note: if the Shield is still too strong, it could be made to have two boosts instead.
_________________
Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99

[piMaster]

I don't think the stinger should be a choice; it should always inject poison just like the dart does. Honestly, if someone uses stingers then they are expecting to poison their victims (i.e. that was their reason to choose that die over others). Thus, they will also be expecting that those stingers will end up stunned and will have built in some recovery.

Also, remember your argument about Rot that you didn't want to interupt someones turn with back and forth between the players? This would be adding in another of those instances.

[chuckpint]

[cliffwiggs]

[piMaster]

[cliffwiggs]

[piMaster]

[cliffwiggs]