SFR, Inc.

[Drachenwurfel]

Were ever been thought about using 20 sided dice for using in Dragon Dice?
Like elder Monsters, a new kind of using items (you may roll, can find items, artefacts or dead) etc?

[KilljoyKing]

Twenty-sided dice have pretty small faces. It would be pretty cool, but fitting an image on would be rather difficult. I wonder how large said die would have to be in order to fit a decently sized icon on it?

Hm, elder monsters, elder dragons... there's a lotta fun stuff it could be!
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[piMaster]

How about d16? They make those, don't they? The faces on those would be a little bigger.
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[KilljoyKing]

Yes, they do make d16. They can make any sort of even-sided die, technically. They even make a d50. They just look really stupid.

Strangely enough, while the faces would be "bigger" on a d16, it would only be in terms of height. They would be unusually narrow, however.

A sixteen sided die's face would be as wide as its circumference divided by eight. (If you've never seen then, imagine an eight or ten sided die with more faces. What do they call them? Anti-prism duals? Or are they just anti-prisms?) You divide by eight since there are eight pairs of surfaces on the top and bottom hemispheres.

A twenty-sided die yields something like the circumference divided by six. Hold up your trusty d20 with points at the poles and count the edges 'round as linearly as possible. That's a crooked six edges, too, as opposed to the straight as thus more accurate eight edges of the d16. That means the face size would be a little bit wider although admittedly shorter.

If you went for something like a monster, most icons would probably be at home more on the d20. Some DD icons are tall and could use the extra height offered by a d16, but those that couldn't (ie saves)... yeeeeeh -- not good.

Of course, the d20 is still probably a small choice. Hey, let's do some math! How big are a monster's faces? The longest side looks to be about nineteen millimeters. Across the kite, they are... um... difficult to measure in a polished state? Looks close to eighteen, strangely enough. Let us just round and say that a 19mm equilateral triangle is required to house a monster's face (oh boy, this is already looking bad).

With the numbers generated before, a d16 would have to be eight times the minimum width (18mm) in circumference (144mm). Dividing by pi, we would get the diameter/width (45.8mm). Ew... four centimeter wide die? I'm not sawing one of my monsters in half, so an eyeball against a ruler says a monster is inaccurately close to thirty mills wide.

For the d20, the circumference would have to be around six times nineteen millimeters, or 114mm. It would be smaller than this due the lazy approximation I made of a d20's circumference being six times an edge length, but we are looking at a die with a height/diameter of only around thirty-six millimeters -- not half bad!*

*Legal Notice: Values and math provided may suck.
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[chuckpint]

A d16 will not work. It is not a regular polygon. d6, d8, d12, and d20 are regular. A d10 is not regular, but it works because it's nearly regular as two 5-sided "pyramids" stuck together. But every d16 I've ever seen does not have sides of all the same size and shape.

A d20 would be nearly twice the size of the d10's in order to have the same size icons as a d10. That would be a pretty big die. The d10's are 20mm, so you are looking about a 36mm die. That's 1.4 inches for all you old-school guys.
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[ddicerc]

[KilljoyKing]

Actually, there are sixteen sided dice with sides of all the same size.

Here's another example, but it is unfortunately Wikipedia. Yech.


Interesting to note that the real die has triangle faces, but the diagram at WP uses kites. They are congruent, tho', just like a d10.
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[Drachenwurfel]

Is this no an idea for an upcoming Champions Set?
No one needs 5 Champions for each race, but give us two, two Elder Dragons/Monsters, and now i have no idea for more...

[Deeghter]

Let's have a 12 sided promotional collector's edition!
Take the IDs of the rarest monsters of each race and put them onto the die.
No, make it 24 sided and put each ID on there twice! That'll give the die a symmetric shape and a reasonable size.
(and I could finally say "I have two Unseelies", LOL!

Offer a stand for it, so I can put it into my showcase!
(It would replace my electric illuminable globe)

Plastic color? well, use ALL racial colors!

Ok, THAT would probably be pretty ugly! YUK!


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[cliffwiggs]

The biggest issue with a die size larger than d10 is not construction or size, but playability.

You see a lot more commons than monsters. Why? They give more predictable results. Think about the monsters that you do see played a lot. They are ones who either have a 20% chance of a really strong SAI like Regenerate or create fire minions. Or something that gives predictable results like a phoenix.

Think about monsters that you don't see a lot like the 'uttercrap'. They are too random, they don't specialize. I can't just take a magic item with my mages, I can't just missle with my missle guys. they do just about everything and none of it well.

So double the sides to 20. you can give them EVERY sai related to an action, which would make them too powerful. You could just repeat the same icons over and over, but then why have 20 sides?

Have you ever notices how many monsters are really close to being a d5? 1 ID, 1 special SAI and 4 icons repeated twice.

IMnsHO, a 20 sided is a novelty and wouldn't ever see real play.

[Deeghter]

[riolis]

This whole thing sound more like the "geek factor" to me. But that's just me (and the jerks for my old High School). Even with the old AD&D d20 d30 and yes a d100 (looks like a golf ball), they were more novelty then usable. oh well still a fun topic
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[KilljoyKing]

That is why I suggested a d20 Dragon. They are already a crazily sided die, and an eight percent chance of a side coming up is not too much different than a five percent chance on a die with eight more faces.

Course, you also have the whole thing of multiple repeated faces on dragons, which I'd imagine would apply moreso to the larger die. Two breath faces A crazy long tail More bellies Well, can't win 'em all.

Of course, someone would actually have to be able to scrawl out a dragon over twenty triangular faces...


And I think the d100 golf ball design is trademarked or something. It isn't even technically a hundred sided figure; it is a sphere with flattened points filled with metal deals to get it to stop rolling or somethin'. At any rate, I doubt SFR would pay to be allowed to use the design or even go through the insane production of it.

A d30 on the other hand... those faces are small enough with numbers! And the die is still enormous! Can you imagine how large a d30 would need to be in order to house a readable icon on it? It would be the largest and thus awesomest die ever!
Now there's your geek factor
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[Drachenwurfel]

I would love a 20 sided Dragon die, even a promo only for having fun.

[Deeghter]

[Drachenwurfel]

i have one here, its a funny thing.

Fore use in Dragon Dice, i think it must have at least Baseball size ^^
It should be an eternal god, unbelievable mighty and only SAI icons.

Use could be, if an Tournament Director or SFR Director watches a boring game, he comes with his eternal god Die, rolls it and changes the situation in this way

[Deeghter]

Yeah, there might be a S&JW Joker icon (Jester's Cap!!) on each face. Joker means: whatever icon you're rolling for, that's it!

(okay, now it's getting hilarious!)

Quickly logs off before he can be punished!
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