SFR, Inc.

[Deeghter]

I just wondered:

Casting costs are the same for all the dragons.
Hybrids have stronger breaths (both colors simultaneously), thatfore they should be more expensive. I know they can summoned away by two colors of magic which makes it more likely, so one can discuss the balance between advantage and disadvantage, I agree. But not with hybrids which have Ivory in them. They certainly have more advantages than disadvantages.

White dragons are MIGHTY, hence double casting costs. Good!

Ivory Dragons also have more advantages than disadvantages and they can't be summoned away. So I think they should be more expensive as well!

I'd suggest: Elemental Dragons 7 points of magic, Hybrids 9 points (maybe Ivory Hybrids only?), Ivory 11 points, Whites 14 points.


Just out of curiosity:
Does anyone who owns Hybrids use Elementals at all anymore?
Especially in games with small numbers of players the Hybrids are definitely better when costing the same as Elementals. Of course, the more players you have the higher the chance that one player's forces match one of the two colors of the Hybrids, hence the higher the chance to summon them away. But still, I consider them worth more than Elementals.
_____________________________

Regarding Wyrms in general:

Is anybody using Dragons instead of Wyrms???
Dragons have two wings icons and if rolled wings they fly away! Wyrms have one more tail icon and the treasure chest for promotion. I never use Drakes, because Wyrms have more advantages. Shouldn't Drakes be less expensive to summon???
(maybe 6 points, or 5)


Yes, I know, differentiating between all the summoning costs would make the rules a little more confusing, but it would be fair (in my opinion) and considering the fact that we're dealing with a very complicated and difficult (and extensive) rule book anyway, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Any opinions on this????
_________________
Mr. Green Fan Club President

Forum Games Record: W 5 / L 10

www.dragondicer.com
SFR's German electro-punk-bluegrass artist Deeghter @@ My S&JW Memorial Space! Tanx, Steve!

[Drachenwurfel]

In case of the Hybrids i see the same problems.
I made a few games with them, and don't know how to use Elementals anymore.
The disadvantages of the hybrids are so few, and mostly there is a matching advantage there.

Somebody told that they are easier to catch by Masters and Hunters, but in the other way, with a red hunter i negated the breath completely from a red dragon.
But by a hybrid, one breath comes to the target.

They really should have 8 or 9 points.

[chuckpint]

Which is why we play tested these new dragons. While it seems that Hybrids are more powerful, they are not. As a matter of fact, I'd simply say that whichever dragon color there are most of at the table are the ones that are the most powerful.

Just last night at the Windy City Bone Rollers game, we played a 5 player game. Dragons were tearing armies up, left and right. In the game were the following dragons:
2 Green
2 Red
1 Ivory
1 Green/Gold
1 Red/Green
1 Red/Blue
2 Blue

At one time or another, all but the Red/Blue and the 2 Blue were summoned into the game. The ivory dragon and both green dragons got summoned to the highest terrain face at the table during the first round of play. For the rest of the game, that ivory dragon just sat there. No one went back to that terrain to kill it, and it couldn't be summoned. Which dragons caused the most damage? The two greens did the most, with the two reds close behind. The Green/Gold dragon "bounced" around the most. Everyone playing had either gold or green magic, so everyone was summoning that dragon. Sometimes it was just to get it away from one of your armies. The Red/Green was a Drake, I think all the rest were Wyrms. The Red/Green in it's only time summoned, rolled a Wing. Not enough damage to hurt the army. But it never got a chance to fly away, the army did enough damage to kill it first.

In short, the fact is, I feel the dragons are well matched. That includes drakes vs wyrms. Making the summoning costs different for each type of dragon is way too confusing.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[Deeghter]

Well, as I said, it rather refers to games with few players (2 or 3). Due to lack of players I hardly play with more than 2 players. I guess (and see from your post) that the more players you have, the more balanced it all gets.

I guess you're right, it wouldn't make sense to change casting costs just for the 2 or 3 player games.

I stand corrected!

And after all, you can still play "house rules" when playing with 2 players only.

And I see the problem with the Ivory Dragon. It simply blocks a terrain in a multi player game.
Then again, in a 2 player game there's not enough terrains available to go to and to avoid the dragon, which makes it desastrous! You HAVE to fight it sooner or later!
_________________
Mr. Green Fan Club President

Forum Games Record: W 5 / L 10

www.dragondicer.com
SFR's German electro-punk-bluegrass artist Deeghter @@ My S&JW Memorial Space! Tanx, Steve!

[chuckpint]

Which is why I would not bring a ivory dragon to a 2-player game. Remember, dragons can (and have) been used against the player that brings them. Hybrid dragons are bit more complicated. In a 2-player game where you don't know what army your opponent will have, a Hybrid dragon is more likely to have a color that your opponent will match than an elemental dragon. So your opponent will be able to summon a Hybrid dragon either on you, or away from himself, where with an elemental dragon, the odds are better than he cannot. You see, the problem with dragons, is that you have to think about both the possibility that you will summon the dragons onto your opponents, and your opponent will be able to do that same.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[Deeghter]

Yep, I understand! Thanks Chuck!
_________________
Mr. Green Fan Club President

Forum Games Record: W 5 / L 10

www.dragondicer.com
SFR's German electro-punk-bluegrass artist Deeghter @@ My S&JW Memorial Space! Tanx, Steve!