SFR, Inc.

[nerdvanastore]

There's a little confusion in my store about the Firewalkers Racial Ability, Flaming Shields.

Some, as well as myself, believe that if a Firewalker army is doing a melee attack, their save icons count towards the melee attack.

Others believe that it acts like the Scalders Scorching Touch and acts like mini counters.

Which is it?

-James Dozier
dba
Nerdvana
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[dburkley]

As per the rules:

Flaming Shields: Firewalkers may, during a melee attack, count save results (only from actual save icons, not ID icons or SAIs) as if they were melee results.

So during a melee attack Firewalkers count their save icons as melee results.

This is significantly different than the Scalders' Scorching Touch, which applies when rolling for saves.

Scorching Touch: Scalders, when rolling for saves during the attack phase of a melee action, generate one point of damage for each non-ID save result back against the attacking army. Only magical saves protect against this damage.
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Daniel Burkley
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"No Magicians": GENCON 2008
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[Autpost]

Here is more info:

http://sfr-inc.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1283

[chuckpint]

Extra things to note.

Firewalker saves can be counted as melee at any time you are rolling for melee results. So they count as melee during: melee attack, melee counter-attack, dragon attack (melee or saves but not both), or any melee avoidance roll (like walking thru a Wall of Thorns).

Scalder Scorching Touch only applies to the save roll against a melee attack. It does not apply to the save roll during a melee counter-attack. That's why the somewhat awkward phrase "when rolling for saves during the attack phase of a melee action" is used.
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[eggsaladsandwich]

Are you planning on rewording the Flaming shields description in the rules to something like: " shields may count as melee results whenever rolling for melee results"?

as its written now it can easily be misunderstood to mean only during a melee attack or counter attack of a melee action.
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[chuckpint]

Not needed. Here's the definition of "melee attack" from the glossary:

[eggsaladsandwich]

ah, but that doesnt cover the dragon attack.
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"Another days useless energy spent." Moody Blues

[piMaster]

Yes it does - during a dragon attack the army makes a melee/missile/save avoidance roll.
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[eggsaladsandwich]

[eggsaladsandwich]

[chuckpint]

Scalders would be too powerful if they could attack you, and you couldn't attack them back without worrying about getting scorched. But if you attack them, then you could get burnt. Just think about it like this. If you attack them, they get mad and burn you. But you attack them back after they have attacked you, they kinda expect it, and just can't get mad enough to burn you for it. Or they are just a little weak after just attacking you with all their might. Whichever works for you.

A Dragon attack is a combination roll. There is such a thing as a combination avoidance roll (see Volcanic Eruption). Really a dragon attack is a thing all to itself. Any roll against a dragon's breath is of course an avoidance roll (a save avoidance roll to be precise). In any case, throughout the rules you will see references to a dragon attack having different results that other actions.

[Autpost]

I would also vote for removing the "during a melee attack" in the Flaming Shields ability. I have not known that the roll in a Wall of Thorns counts as melee attack, would have played it wrong.

[chuckpint]

Dropping the "melee attack" could have some unintended consequences. For example, during a save roll, you could count all your save icons as melee. Thereby not saving against an attack. Why would you want to do that? Well, if you had an Open Grave, and you wanted to move your army, it would move as many as possible into reserves. Then at the end of your turn you could move them to another terrain. So you could move the army in one turn, not two.

The point is, that currently you can only convert Firewalker saves to melee right now when you are rolling for melee.

As for the individual rolls:

[eggsaladsandwich]

Just drop the "attack" :
Firewalkers may count saves (only from actual save icons) as melee results when rolling for melee.
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"Another days useless energy spent." Moody Blues