SFR, Inc.

[DEEPBLUEB2]

[DEEPBLUEB2]

Racial Abilites:


Terrain Flight:


Camouflage: Yes

Hide: no


Stepped Damage:

this is a tricky one...as once the unit has sted damage.. it loses the "Invisible Spell"


Fade: Yes


Feralization:


Hide: no


Mutate:


Camouflage: no

Fade: Yes

Hide: no


Magic Negation:


Camouflage: Yes

Hide: no


Scorching Touch:

Camouflage: no

Fade: Yes (Tricky one again...but if the army has the initial attack that has a Faded unit...then it can be subjected to Scorching touch)

Hide: no


Intangibility:


Camouflage: Yes

Hide: no


Treefolk Double Maneuvers:

Camouflage: Yes

Hide: no


Replanting:

Camouflage: Yes (But again...it loses the Invisiblilty Spell)

Hide: no



Terrain Advantage: Coral Elves
Terrain Advantage: Goblins
Terrain Advantage: Lava Elves
Terrain Advantage: Amazons
Magic Use: Amazons
Reserve Attack: Amazons
Double Magic: Undead
Frostwings Magic Use:

[piMaster]

I'll have to quibble about some of those. Since its easier to just type up the list than sprinkling quotes everywhere:

Terrain Flight: A hidden/camouflaged Firewalker unit can use its terrain flight racial ability. Obviously you cannot fade a firewalker unit.

Stepped Damage: A camouflaged/faded Undead unit, if killed, could be traded in (and looses the spell once it hits the DUA). Obviously you cannot kill a hiden unit.

Feralization: A hidden/camouflaged unit cannot be promoted. If the entire army was invisible, it could still recruit. Obviously you cannot fade a Feral unit.

Mutation: As long as you have dead Swamp Stalkers and Swamp Stalkers at a terrain, you can attempt to mutate. Hidden/camouflaged units cannot be promoted, but you can still recruit units into the army. This is true even if the entire army is invisible. A hidden/camouflaged unit cannot be targeted by a mutation attempt, though a faded unit could be.

Magic negation: Hidden units cannot roll. Camouflaged units can roll. Obviously you cannot fade a Frostwing unit.

Scorching touch: On the recieving end, camouflaged units could be killed, hidden/faded units cannot. On the giving end, hidden units cannot roll, camouflaged units can be rolled, and obviously you cannot fade a Scalder unit.

Intangibility: A hidden/camouflaged unit still generates the automatic save for its army. Obviously you cannot fade a Scalder unit.

Treefolk x2 maneuvers: Hidden units cannot roll, camouflaged units can roll, and obviously you cannot fade a Treefolk unit.

Replanting: Hidden/camouflaged units can be traded, and obviously you cannot fade a Treefolk unit.

[DEEPBLUEB2]

I'm thrilled to have some input.

Mine are not definitve...as I really don't know what is right or wrong.
So thanks again piMaster.

I'll have to read your explanations in detail before I can truly respond...however,
the first one that jumps out at me....

[piMaster]

A hidden unit cannot be effected by the racial abilities of other dice; it can still use its own racial ability on itself (like hidden firewalkers using terrain flight).

[willpell]

Why on earth would you ever cast Hide? If the unit can't roll, it can't do anything at all, so the fact that it can't be killed seems to lack something in terms of relevance. If you're going to Hide your units, you might as well just pull them back to reserve instead, I'd think. Maybe there's something I'm missing here.
_________________
Designer of Hybrid Dragon Breaths, the Enchant Element spell, new colored Dragonkin Breaths, and various homebrew races and dragons. If you want to know where to find them...good luck, I don't remember anymore.

[frdm02]

an unopposed hidden unit can maneuver a terrain. It is only required to be able to roll if it is opposed.
_________________
5,117 dice and counting (not all races are counted yet)

[chuckpint]

A hidden unit still forms an army. You can cast Wind Walks on the army and then during a maneuver attempt you have all the Wind Walks, but of course the die is not rolled. If you have enough Wind Walks on your army, and/or Transmute Rock to Muds on the other army, you can win a maneuver roll with all hidden units.

Same is true for Camouflage and Fade. It's just that those spells have a "weak point" that still allows that unit to be killed.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[piMaster]

[willpell]

[piMaster]

1. Feral army captures an 8th face
2. Feral army roll for magic and Paths a common unit to the next highest terrain and Hides it

next turn
1. Feral army rolls for magic. Casts Hide on common unit, Wind Walks on hidden army and Transmute Rock to Muds on opposing armies.
2. Hidden army maneuvers terrain up

next turn
1. Feral army rolls for magic. Casts Hide on common unit, Wind Walks on hidden army and Transmute Rock to Muds on opposing armies.
2. Hidden army maneuvers terrain up

and so on until Feral army gets their 2nd 8th face.

The only way to break the cycle is to either: drop some dragons on the hidden army, use Firewalker mages to cast Elemental Blast on the Hide spells, or cut down the army at the 8th face.

[willpell]

The tactic you describe costs 12 spell points per turn, minimum. If you're getting that much magic, you pretty much deserve to win; if you don't have Hide and Wind Walk and TRM, then you just Finger of Death your foes three times each turn until they die off. Various other races have nonblack spells that are similarly efficient to various degrees. I don't see how this tactic is any more broken than playing canadian in an 8th face normally is.

[chuckpint]

No, hidden units do not have to fight dragons. But since Hide expires at the beginning of the turn, unless you get a Cantrip from another dragon attack, then the Hide will not be there when the dragon attack happens.

In a 36-health game (the most common format), 12 points of magic is very common. If half your army is mages, and you have most of the rest of your army at an eighth face, between mages and a few ID from non-mages, 12 points would be a low roll. If you had all Feral, the average would be well above 12, especially if you could double gold on the IDs.

With two armies both at magic, it's going to be a stalemate in most cases if you are casting Fingers of Death at each other. Why? Simple, Finger of Death is 4 points, resurrection is 3 points.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[willpell]

[piMaster]

[willpell]

[piMaster]

[uncle.sengir]

[DEEPBLUEB2]

Ok back to the Hide/Camo/Fade topic...


Chuck pointed out an interesting factor in our last metting...

I casted two spells...
one was a flash flood...the other was a hail storm on a lone common.
At this point the the lone unit was not hidden.

Well the flash flood caused a cantrip....
which was used to hide the lone common...

but in this case...
the lone common was targeted before the hide spell was in play...
so it had to roll for a save.
If it survived then the hide spell would come into play for any further targeting.

However I wonder why since the cantrip already hid the unit before the hailstorm...how could it be taken for damage?
As here...

[chuckpint]