SFR, Inc.

[stormywaters]

Around here we're all playing 18 points because we're all new and don't have collections conducive to 36 points.

So I traded for two packs of Treefolk, and I'm wondering what you'd build with what I have. First my collection, then my army:

1x Strangle Vine
1x Redwood

1x Pine Prince
1x Noble Willow

2x Oak
2x Willow

3x Pineling
2x Oakling
2x Nymph
1x Willowling


My army currently:

1x Strangle Vine
1x Redwood

1x Noble Willow

2x Willow

2x Nymph
1x Willowling


What else should I try to trade for? Thanks!!

[cliffwiggs]

[stormywaters]

[cliffwiggs]

[stormywaters]

To which I'd reply "These are the options I currently have available; what would you recommend within those options?"

[cliffwiggs]

Ah, a puzzle!

then I'm back into it.

You have 30 health worth of dice. which one do you hate the worst? get rid of it, until you get to 18

ok fine...


based on the dice you have... I would go... all the pines and willows (missile and light) and the stranglevine (because its my favorite concept of a monster and contains the most icons that I designed on my laptop)
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Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99

[DialFforFunky]

This would be my se-tup:

horde:
1x Noble Willow
2x Willow
1x Nymph
1x Willowling

campaign:
1x Oakling

home:
1x Redwood
2x Oak

The horde is built for survivability and speed (and almost nothing else) while the home army is there to stomp the opposing horde army.

I decided to cut the pine-stuff because you had too little of it. I also decided to cut the stranglevine for being to inconsistent. Though rend and double strike can make it butcher armies singlehandedly, choke is mostly a waste in such small formats (less Id's coming up with less dice being rolled). I like the redwood for being consistent because of the tramples and lots of saves (the vine lacks this), which your army needs as regrowth is the only way to restore stuff to life.
The noble willow is there solely because it has wild growth. It's not that well suited for small battles, as it likes a filled DUA, but it's the best you've got. Make sure you use replanting a lot to create the best set-up for wild growth and it can be a game-swinger. Usually, this means putting 2-health units in the DUA as much as possible, so your 1-healths can promote.


F


edit: building for 18 health is weird though, as I have no idea what to expect. I built this army with the idea that you'd be facing something of a similar power-level. If you are facing fireshadows or leopard riders, you might be in for a rough ride. In that case, you might want to build something a bit more extreme and go for the stranglevine, and then hope those rerollables turn up a lot.
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717

[stormywaters]

I've noticed the same thing with Strangle Vine; he's a potential powerhouse but inconsistent and low saves.

I also noticed that interesting synergy with Wild Growth and replanting. Wouldn't I generally just take my commons as casualties anyway? Of course facing Smother, Portion, etc it makes sense.

[DialFforFunky]

You'll probably send 1-healths to the DUA first because they'll always fit the 'packet of damage' done by the opponent. But you also want them to be replanted back on the field as soon as possible, as they allow the most promotions (for example, 3x1h -> 3x2h = +3h as opposed to 3h -> 4h = +1h ).
Another thing to consider is the fact that 1 and 2 health dice simply carry more icons per health than 3 and 4h dice. Two commons are capable of creating the equivalent output of a monster. I couldn't give you a clear rule as to what you'd want to have in play all of the time, but in smaller games like these it is certainly something worth remembering.

F
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717

[stormywaters]

Very wise words. I'll keep that in mind.

On that note, would it be worthwhile fitting in another Noble Willow or two in a larger game? It's akin to a Troll's Regenerate but arguably more flexible with Replanting considered. Not as potent, but offers a lot.

[DialFforFunky]

You might want to check out the Duch Duel part 2 in the online games if you want to have an impression of how that works out. I built an army doing just that: spamming wild growths. Wild growth has some downsides and some upsides compared to regeneration. On the one hand, regrowth requires a lot of work and thorough force-preparation to actually produce a decent output, whereas regenerate simply works. On the other hand, wild growth can also work like a reroll for dice that did not produce the outcome that you wanted. I used in the last turn of the game to get some extra magic results.
Still, in the end I don't think wild growth is as dependable or consistent as regeneration or simple magical resurrection. If you're thinking of expanding your force, simple mages would probably be your safest bet (the elder dryad is a powerhouse at that).


F
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717

[stormywaters]

I know, that dude is a magic powerhouse.

So why'd you choose the Wild Growth route then?

[DialFforFunky]

I though I'd try it out. In the first game I gained the upper hand by taking out his mages while keeping mine alive. So I figured I wanted to try a completely non-magical force for the second battle. I love wild growth and I love the replanting racial rule, so I settled on the theme pretty quickly.

One of the benefits of going this route is that it creates a force with a lot of muscle. Instead of using one army to try and get to an 8th face, and the other staying stationary for support, you've now got 2 armies going for an 8th. The wild growth route wastes very little icons (no magical icons showing up in close combat situations, for example).
The risk was that my opponent could start burying my dead. If that would have happened, I would have been in serious trouble. This forced me to include at least one gold medallion to keep my units out of the BUA.

With the requirements of
- units that have wild growth
- enough units that allow wild growth to actually work (plenty of commons and uncommons)
- something to keep my units out of the BUA (but not too much out of the DUA, if possible)
my selection for constructing my army was getting pretty crowded already. I squeezed in a stranglevine for fun, and though it performed admirably, I think my army would have been better if the vine was left out. But this means that for a 36 health set-up, you are pretty much restricted to a 3 or 4 health 'breathing space'

Wow, I've started rambling.

Short answer: just for fun


F
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717

[stormywaters]

I think Wild Growth has more potential than you're letting on. Then again I think Regenerate is too good; it's the equivalent of 12 points of magic. I honestly think Trolls create "oops I win" games. If they knocked it down to 2 health regenerated, or tightened the circumstances during which it can proc, it'd be different.

Here's the thing: You take damage in melee. You roll for saves, hitting a Regenerate. If you take 4 health back, you've countered the four damage that Regenerate would've saved, PLUS given yourself a chance for additional saves.

I think a more balanced ability would be, say:

"Generates 4 saves. During an attack Regenerate brings four health back, AFTER you've finalized results".

Now it's only a save on defense, and on offense it's like the Troll sat out this fight to Regen. It's still very potent, but not overwhelmingly so.

[DialFforFunky]

Wild growth produces the same 12 points of magic, but it's a bit harder to work with. Another thing I didn't think of though, is that wild growth also works quite nicely with dragonkin. Spending saves to create more semi-permanent autosaves is pretty cool. But it's also a very hard theme to build a solid army around.
All in all, I think wild growth and regenerate are moderately balanced. They are not completely on the same level, but enough to be interesting (SFR doesn't want a completely equalized balance anyways, and I can see why).


F
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