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stormywaters
rare
Joined: 22 May 2011
Posts: 1403
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 Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:05 pm GMT Post subject: Eldarim Champions |
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Do you guys run them? If so, which do you run?
I only own a Dragon Crusader at the moment, but I have been debating picking up a pack of them, so I'm looking for suggestions.
Dragon Slayer/Dragon Hunters: Pretty heavy melee, seem really useful. The downside is that they don't let you promote against dragons.
Dragon Lord/Dragon Masters: Cantrip is pretty cool, but it's 4 points of mages for a single Cantrip (plus the ID, I guess, and the Logo if you're running the Masters).
Dragon Crusader/Dragon Zealots: Lots of saves on these guys, and Bash is pretty sweet (really sweet actually), but I feel like the Logo ability to be a little... well, lacking. I do really like the names, and I wish the Logo ability conveyed more of a... righteous zeal, crusading, vengeance-like feel that the names invoke.
What's a guy to do?? |
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dburkley
rare
Director
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1200
Location: Hillsborough, NJ
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:45 pm GMT Post subject: Eldarim Champions |
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The primary reason I use a Dragonslayer on occasion is the protection against Dragon breath, and I tend to include one in a Battlefest army, since there are potentially more dragons that could enter play. It is a very capable melee die, but doesn't contribute to maneuvers.
For the Constructed format, I tend to favor a Dragonmaster instead. The Cantrip and Fly SAIs make it a more versatile die. I've used Dragonmasters as well with certain races and in any Battlefest army.
Haven't tried the Crusader/Zealot champions, yet - but as soon as I saw it, I recognized it to be the bane of Leopard Riders and Wolf Packs (and those dice equipped with Burning Hands). You have to pay a lot more attention to the damage each die generates when one of these is in the game.
_________________
Daniel Burkley
US National Champion (DEXCON 2007, 2009, 2010)
World Champion (GENCON 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2014)
Battlefest Champion: DEXCON 2008, 2011, GENCON 2009, 2010 (co-champion), 2011, 2017)
"No Magicians": GENCON 2008
"Single Race": DEXCON 2008, GENCON 2010, 2011, 2014 (co-champion), 2017 |
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stormywaters
rare
Joined: 22 May 2011
Posts: 1403
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:13 am GMT Post subject: Re: Eldarim Champions |
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| dburkley wrote: | The primary reason I use a Dragonslayer on occasion is the protection against Dragon breath, and I tend to include one in a Battlefest army, since there are potentially more dragons that could enter play. It is a very capable melee die, but doesn't contribute to maneuvers.
For the Constructed format, I tend to favor a Dragonmaster instead. The Cantrip and Fly SAIs make it a more versatile die. I've used Dragonmasters as well with certain races and in any Battlefest army.
Haven't tried the Crusader/Zealot champions, yet - but as soon as I saw it, I recognized it to be the bane of Leopard Riders and Wolf Packs (and those dice equipped with Burning Hands). You have to pay a lot more attention to the damage each die generates when one of these is in the game. |
Very interesting points. I forgot that Slayers make your army immune to dragon breaths, a huge point in their favor.
Like I said before about the Masters, I like them, but it ties up a lot of magic points in your army for very little actual magic value. I just find it hard to justify losing 4 points of magic for a Cantrip.
I hadn't thought of the Bash against Rend (and others). It tracks all the damage they rolled, not just the final result? I guess I always figured that after each reroll, the previous results were somehow "banked" and no longer tied to that die. I don't know at all why I thought that.
I'll definitely start throwing him around a little more. I only wish Bash was a little more proactive and a little less reactive, though I understand that Bash exists on other dice as well, so it's not likely to change. |
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cliffwiggs
SFR Treasurer
Chief Wheedler
SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 10794
Location: Cumming, GA - USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:36 am GMT Post subject: Re: Eldarim Champions |
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| stormywaters wrote: | | though I understand that Bash exists on other dice as well, so it's not likely to change. |
technically that's 'other die'. Bash is on the DC/DZ and on the 3pt save MI.
If you want to make a suggestion for 3.0 go right ahead.
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Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
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stormywaters
rare
Joined: 22 May 2011
Posts: 1403
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:42 am GMT Post subject: Re: Eldarim Champions |
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| cliffwiggs wrote: | | stormywaters wrote: | | though I understand that Bash exists on other dice as well, so it's not likely to change. |
technically that's 'other die'. Bash is on the DC/DZ and on the 3pt save MI.
If you want to make a suggestion for 3.0 go right ahead. |
Fair enough, here it is:
It's been said that giving it melee results would be too good, so what if it were like Choke, but looked for a unit that rolled melee results? "During a melee attack, after opposing player has rolled for saves but before finalizing, choose a unit that rolled melee results to save or be killed." Still keeping the current Bash ability, but with this added effect.
I just feel like he spends too much time doing nothing, and the 3-pt Save shouldn't be broken by this.
As for his Champion ability, how about "Fanaticism": if he rolls his logo, units in the army may double their melee and save results. It's like the Slayer (in that it helps kill dragons), but without automatic breath protection or automatic kill. |
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dburkley
rare
Director
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1200
Location: Hillsborough, NJ
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:37 pm GMT Post subject: Re: Eldarim Champions |
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| stormywaters wrote: | | I hadn't thought of the Bash against Rend (and others). It tracks all the damage they rolled, not just the final result? |
Yes. When the results are finalized, that is when you count the damage generated by each die.
| stormywaters wrote: | | I guess I always figured that after each reroll, the previous results were somehow "banked" and no longer tied to that die. I don't know at all why I thought that. |
Can't answer that one. The damage always has to be tallied, anyway, although damage from each die might not have been tracked - but in a game where a Bash SAI could show up, the extra attention is necessary.
The Bash SAI is a reasonable counter-balance to Double-strike, Rend, and dice with spell-augmented damage (such as Burning Hands or Wilding).
I'm still against "bashing" the current re-roll SAIs or effects. These are legitimate means of generating additional results and make for an exciting element of the game, no matter which side of the table you're sitting at. Other melee-enhancing effects exist as well, including the Trumpet SAI and spells.
_________________
Daniel Burkley
US National Champion (DEXCON 2007, 2009, 2010)
World Champion (GENCON 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2014)
Battlefest Champion: DEXCON 2008, 2011, GENCON 2009, 2010 (co-champion), 2011, 2017)
"No Magicians": GENCON 2008
"Single Race": DEXCON 2008, GENCON 2010, 2011, 2014 (co-champion), 2017 |
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