SFR, Inc.

[syntaxerror111]

I was lamenting the fact that my Driders are so terrible... Web is a straight downgrade from the other "disable" SAIs such as Sleep, Stun, Entangle, and Net. In fact, I would rather they simply be 4 normal melee results instead

I looked at the dice of other races and Web only appears on one other monster, Web Birds (not exactly a powerhouse either). Since this SAI shows up so infrequently, and because it is such a stinker, it should be a simple matter to change it to be more useful. Here are my suggestions:

1. Do away with Web entirely, and make it Net instead. The icons and behavior are very similar, so this should be an easy fix.

2. Make it more interesting, by adding something that interacts with the Fly SAI. Web makes me think of hunting aerial targets, and it would be neat to have it be a soft counter to a very useful SAI.

I am sure others have better ideas than I do, so please share them. I really enjoy Dragon Dice, and am simply trying to make the game better. Thanks!

-edit: grammar
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-Fortune favors the bald

[DEEPBLUEB2]

[syntaxerror111]

[cmgriff74]

So I don't play lava elves so I may just not completely understand, but does web being "a straight downgrade from other 'disable' SAIs" make it bad?
Or, if it is bad, maybe a good question would be "are driders too good with any other 'disable' SAIs". I honestly don't know just something to take into consideration.

[syntaxerror111]

Warning! Long post ahead!

I think it would be helpful for me to discuss the Web SAI first in relation to other 'disable' SAIs.

First, let's consider Sleep as our baseline for a disable SAI effect.
Sleep
-triggers during melee
-you choose one unit, which doesn't get a save
-the unit cannot be rolled until the end of your next turn

I am separating its effects so we can compare it to the others.
Next let's look at Stun.
Stun
-triggers during melee
-you choose up to 4 health of units, which get a maneuver avoidance roll
-the affected units cannot be rolled until the end of your next turn
-you get to reroll the unit that generated stun, applying its results as well

Stun's upside is that you have more freedom in choosing targets, and you get a reroll. The downside is that the units get a roll to avoid the effect. Seems like a reasonable compromise to me.

Another similar SAI is Entangle.
Entangle
-triggers during melee
-you choose up to 4 health of units, which don't get a save
-the units cannot be rolled until the beginning of your next turn
-if the entangling unit is killed, they are no longer affected

The trade off here is that you get the flexibility of 4 units with no save, but the effect doesn't last as long and killing your monster undoes the effect. So far each SAI has a similar effect, but none is clearly better.

Coming up is Net
Net
-triggers during melee or missile
-you choose up to 4 health of units, which get a maneuver avoidance roll
-the affected units cannot be rolled until the beginning of your next turn
-Net also provides saves against individual targeting effects

Net is useful in more situations that the previous SAIs, with the downside of a shorter lasting effect and a maneuver avoidance roll.

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Ok, so far so good. We have looked at 4 different disabling SAIs, and each brings something different to the table. Now lets look at Web:

Web
-triggers during melee
-you choose up to 4 health of units, which get a melee avoidance roll
-the affected units cannot be rolled until the beginning of your next turn

So why is Web so bad? When you compare its effects to all the other disabling SAIs, it is always just worse. It only triggers in melee, the targets all get a chance to avoid, it has the shorter duration, and it has no other advantages over the other SAIs.

Real quick I want to speak about the maneuver vs melee avoidance roll, as that seems to be the only thing that might be considered an advantage for Web. Most of the time when you are in melee combat, what are the units that you want to disable? Probably their heavy infantry, including units that hit hard and save well. So what's the problem here? Its that the units you are trying to disable are precisely the ones who can most often make the avoidance roll in the first place. Seems like this SAI is a dud!

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Now that we are done looking at Web in a vacuum, how about some context. Where units does Web appear? To my knowledge, Web only appears on two monsters: Drider and Web Birds. Lets look at the icon distribution on these for a moment:

Drider [Web, Web, missile, maneuver, maneuver, melee, melee, save, save]
Web Birds [Web, Web, Fly, Fly, missile, missile, missile, melee, melee]

As you can see, Web is the only SAI on the Drider, and is accompanied by Fly on Web Birds. Lets take racial bonuses into account, shall we?

Lava Elf Racial Ability
As their only special ability, Lava Elf units count their maneuvers as saves when at a Highland terrain.

So the Drider's two maneuver sides count as saves on a highland. Compare this to the Hellhound, which also has two maneuver sides, doesn't 'waste' a side (missile on a melee oriented monster), and has an arguably better SAI with Flame.

Scalder Racial Abilities
Scorching Touch: Scalders, when rolling for saves during the attack phase of a melee action, generate one point of damage for each non-ID save result back against the attacking army. Only magical saves protect against this damage.
Intangibility: During a save roll against a missile action, each Scalder unit in the defending army provides one automatic save result to this army against any non-SAI missile damage.

The Web Birds reflect damage back when defending from a melee attack with its two Fly SAIs. The Web Birds also get one auto save against ranged attacks. I am not really sure what to say about the rest of the Scalder monsters, as they all seem pretty weak to me. Perhaps someone else that plays Scalders can provide an analysis of them.


So what does it all mean?

It means that Web, in addition to being a weak SAI, only appears on two weak monsters.

I propose that we, the Dragon Dice community, do something about it. Suggestions anyone?
_________________
-Fortune favors the bald

[cliffwiggs]

[syntaxerror111]

[DEEPBLUEB2]

I think Web should be used as defense as well as offense...

or during melee and saves

[syntaxerror111]

Web #1: Special (melee attack, save)
During a melee attack or a save roll in a melee attack, choose up to four health-worth of units in the enemy army to be webbed unless each targeted unit immediately rolls a melee result. Target units that fail their avoidance roll cannot be rolled until the beginning of your next turn.

The first variant allows this SAI to trigger on save rolls in a melee attack- design space not covered by the other disabling SAIs. It also fits the flavor, as the webs hinder the enemy and make attacking or defending against this unit difficult.


Web #2: Special (melee attack)
During a melee attack, choose up to four health-worth of units in the defending army to be webbed unless each targeted unit immediately rolls a melee result. Target units that fail their avoidance roll cannot be rolled until the beginning of your next turn. Target units that roll a Fly icon are killed with no save possible.

The second variant allows this SAI to potentially kill units with the Fly SAI. The mechanics support the image of a flying unit being helplessly trapped in a web, which I think is spot on.


Web #3: make it Net

Again this is probably the easiest fix, because the icons for Web and Net are similar enough.
_________________
-Fortune favors the bald

[DEEPBLUEB2]

[dproman]

I know that this is only a suggestion or an idea, but please know that it violates the rules (page 39):

[cliffwiggs]

[syntaxerror111]

[dproman]

So let's just continue to exploit the rules, technically.
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Rep (director)

[cliffwiggs]

[syntaxerror111]

Did I win? Do I get a prize?
_________________
-Fortune favors the bald

[cliffwiggs]

[syntaxerror111]

[dburkley]

[syntaxerror111]