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Indrid Cold dragonmount
Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Posts: 37 Location: Houston, TX

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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:48 am GMT Post subject: Ash Storm clarification |
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So Ash Storm subtracts X results at the target terrain.
Opponent army uses 4 magic to cast ash storm so that X=2.
The army at affected terrain is fighting a dragon, and the army rolls 5 saves, 8 melee, and 3 missile.
2 is subtracted from each total, resulting in 3 saves, 6 melee and 1 missile.
Is this the correct interpretation of this spell in this instance? |
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cliffwiggs SFR Treasurer Chief Wheedler SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 10794 Location: Cumming, GA - USA

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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:05 am GMT Post subject: |
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no, it subtracts '2' from the roll, but if it is a combination roll or a roll in which you are 'counting' multiple results at the same time then you only subtract two results from the roll.
does that make sense?
one further wrinkle with that spell, you have to remove results that were being rolled 'FOR', so in a dragon roll you are rolling for saves and melee and missile. so you can remove any '2' of those results, but you can't remove maneuver or magic.
additionally, if you are rolling for saves, you must remove saves. the fact that a lava elf maneuver may be counted as saves later, it isn't a save at the time you apply subtract modifiers, so you can't remove a maneuver result.
does that further example make sense? _________________ Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
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dburkley rare Director
Joined: 29 Jun 2008 Posts: 1200 Location: Hillsborough, NJ

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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:15 am GMT Post subject: Ash Storm |
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For the scenario you described, Two results are subtracted (not two of each type of result). The active player chooses the results subtracted, so for the same scenario you described, the player could choose to subtract melee, missile, or save results, since all apply during a reaction to a Dragon Attack. The player would typically choose those results he doesn't need.
The player might not have as many options in other circumstances, such as during a Magic, Missile, or Melee action (or a save roll). Only Results generated by Normal Action icons and ID icons can be subtracted (results generated from SAIs are not).
So if we go back to your scenario, and the army that was rolling consisted of two Mammoth Riders and both rolled the Trample SAI and the terrain was a Highlands, they would generate 12 melee results (6 from the Trample SAIs, which no results would be subtracted by the Ash Storms, and then those 'normal' results would be doubled by the Highlands through the Dwarf racial ability). _________________ Daniel Burkley
US National Champion (DEXCON 2007, 2009, 2010)
World Champion (GENCON 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2014)
Battlefest Champion: DEXCON 2008, 2011, GENCON 2009, 2010 (co-champion), 2011, 2017)
"No Magicians": GENCON 2008
"Single Race": DEXCON 2008, GENCON 2010, 2011, 2014 (co-champion), 2017 |
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Indrid Cold dragonmount
Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Posts: 37 Location: Houston, TX

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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:24 am GMT Post subject: |
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| cliffwiggs wrote: | no, it subtracts '2' from the roll, but if it is a combination roll or a roll in which you are 'counting' multiple results at the same time then you only subtract two results from the roll.
does that make sense?
one further wrinkle with that spell, you have to remove results that were being rolled 'FOR', so in a dragon roll you are rolling for saves and melee and missile. so you can remove any '2' of those results, but you can't remove maneuver or magic.
additionally, if you are rolling for saves, you must remove saves. the fact that a lava elf maneuver may be counted as saves later, it isn't a save at the time you apply subtract modifiers, so you can't remove a maneuver result.
does that further example make sense? |
I think so. So in my previous example the 2 would be subtracted from either melee missile or saves but not each of them, correct?
Can the player divide the penalty? For example, subtract 1 from melee and 1 from saves? |
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cliffwiggs SFR Treasurer Chief Wheedler SDA - Rules NitPicker
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 10794 Location: Cumming, GA - USA

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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:08 am GMT Post subject: |
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yes, you can split the penalty. _________________ Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99 |
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