SFR, Inc.

[Autpost]

I have another question, which is even more irritating: This will not happen often, but imagine in a Battlefest game my opponent is playing an all Inferno army. His 20 Infernos are located in one terrain, no opposing army is present. He rolls this army for an action (doesn't matter for what) and three faces with Cantrip come up. These 12 points of instant magic are used to cast Ashstorms, Tidal Wave or Volcanic Eruption on other terrains plus one Firestorm (which is resolved last) on their own Inferno terrain. Although one Firestorm is not enough to kill even one Inferno they still get their save roll (since damage is inflicted). During this save roll again three faces with Cantrips come up and since no other army is present it's not a simultaneous roll, so all activity is suspended and the Cantrips can be used again for more Ashstorms plus Volcanic Eruption (on other terrains) plus one more Firestorm on their own terrain which will cause the next save roll. Again Cantrips come up for more spells plus another Firestorm. And so it continues until all enemy units are killed. Somehow I would believe that this can't be possible, but I don't know why.

Unless that this trick does not work, it would be very powerful if you play in that way. If you don't own enough Infernos you can use some of your Unseelies instead; they also have a Cantrip and may cast Firestorm since they are Scalders. You can replace some Infernos with Liches (for Evil Eyes and Finger of Death) and Trolls for additional help. Note that this does not work with army-targeting spells (like Hailstorm), since you cannot target your own army, causing it to reroll. You must use Scalders for Firestorm.

[chuckpint]

This is indeed a loophole. I looked thru the old notes, and found a reference to Firestorm that said this could not happen because Firestorm was always a Simultaneous roll. But somehow that got lost. And we even added an example to show that during a Firestorm an army by itself at a terrain could use it's Cantrips (see example on page 27).

So I propose we close this loophole by making it impossible for an army to cast Firestorm on a terrain that only has that same player's army at that terrain. Sure, let someone cast Firestorm on a terrain were that player has an army, and another player also has an army. After all the reason that an army can't cast a damage spell (say, a single point of Hailstorm) on the same player's army, is to prevent just this kind of abuse of the rules.

So here's my proposed change to the fourth sentence in the first paragraph on Target (page 15): "However, you cannot target your armies, units or magical items with spells that directly inflict damage or with spells that indirectly inflict immediate damage that would affect only your armies." I put the "inflict immediate damage" so you could still (for example) still summon a Dragon to a terrain where you had the only army. A Dragon is not "immediate damage", but Firestorm (and the like) is immediate.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[piMaster]

In addition to your change Chuck, how about changing the target sentence of Firestorm (and any other applicable spell) to:

"Target any terrain that has an enemy army present."

That way its more obvious and easier for a beginner to understand (we want more beginners don't we?).

-Brad
big fan of the KISS principle (Keep It Simple & Straightforward)
_________________
"Everything Brad said is correct." - Chuck Pint

[chuckpint]

Ok, that sounds like a good idea. The only spell I'm not sure about needing this is Mirage. Otherwise the following spells need this added:

Firestorm
Tidal Wave
Volcanic Eruption

Funny thing, all the above are Scalder spells...
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[piMaster]

Mirage would only need the change if you are worried about the all-common army using it to move units around faster. Otherwise you could leave Mirage as is.
_________________
"Everything Brad said is correct." - Chuck Pint