SFR, Inc.

[BBrauser]

I guess it never dawned on me that SAI's do not normally work in the DUA.

Was reading every word of the new pdf rules file to see what may have changed or what I may have been doing wrong and found:

"A unit is targeted with a Poison SAI. When the unit makes its first save avoidance roll, it rolls a Cantrip SAI. The unit
does not save, but it does get to spend the Cantrip because this SAI is applicable during a save roll. If it had rolled Cantrip during
the second save avoidance roll, it would not count, because it is in the DUA, and no SAI (unless it states otherwise) works in the
DUA."

so for confirmation that I now have this right:

A green dragon breaths on an army of one Rare unit that rolls a counter. the counter counts as 4 saves but not enough to save the unit. it is NOW considered in the DUA and has to roll again and save to keep from going to the BUA, it rolls a counter again. Since this is an SAI it is ignored and NOT counted as a save to keep from burying the unit?
_________________
Bryan Brauser
-Self-proclamed Agnoiologist-

[piMaster]

[piMaster]

Now that I think of it, when resolving Blue/Green Dragon Breath, do the target units need to each generate one save result or generate a number of save results equal to their health?
_________________
"Everything Brad said is correct." - Chuck Pint

[chuckpint]

This points out the subtle difference between a save roll and save avoidance roll.. A save roll is an attempt to save vs a number of points of damage. For example, a Bullseye does 4 points of damage. If it all targets a common unit, for example, it's dead, it cannot generate 4 saves. On the other hand is the save avoidance roll. It targets x-health of units. Note that is very different from doing x points of damage. So on a green dragon breath, for example, you pick 5-health of units. Say one is the Lava Elf rare unit, the Wyvern Rider. If it rolls it's one Fly side, it saves just as well as if it rolls it's five Fly side. All it needs is a save, to avoid the effect (kill or bury). Note how useful Earthen Armor would be in this case.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[BBrauser]

If the counter's "normal" results WOULD count to keep it from being buried then perhaps the wording shouldn't say "no SAI (unless it states otherwise) works in the DUA." but instead say "only SAI's NORMAL results, not special results, work in the DUA. its an SAI that is producing the results no matter what and to say no SAI works in the DUA makes it sound like no result produced by an SAI icon gets counted if rolled while in the DUA.

The explanation for Spells not effecting SAI's would support this logic:

What is important to note is any result (normal or special) generated by an SAI, cannot be modified by spells, other SAIs or dragon breath. It is not the kind of result that matters; it is the type of icon that generated the result."

With that being specified I think a player may see assume the same applies to DUA. they would take the the though "its the type of icon that generated the result that matters." and the statement "SAI (unless it states otherwise) works in the DUA." and see that as COUNTER doesn't work no matter what from the DUA, neither as saves when rolling in this instance, nor as melee when being rolled in conjunction with the spell HAUNT. because smite is special, is it ignored when rolled during a haunt spell? and does haunt allow you to attack a reserve army, since the wording is "any enemy army"?
_________________
Bryan Brauser
-Self-proclamed Agnoiologist-

[piMaster]

[BBrauser]

I would be very happy with that rewording of the SAI explanation. removes all confusion IMO.

haunt?

Target your DUA. All dead units form into a magically constructed army that immediately takes a melee action
against any enemy army. Bury any of your units killed during this melee action and return the rest to your DUA. This
spell can be cast only once per magic action

Does this mean the magically constructed army is considered to be moving directly to the army its attacking, therefore being effected by terrain bonuses and penalties at that terrain? I had assumed that the construct was "somewhere else", not at any terrain, just magically attacking with melee results from the DUA.
_________________
Bryan Brauser
-Self-proclamed Agnoiologist-

[piMaster]

[chuckpint]

Far simpler:

"No SAI special results (unless the SAI description states otherwise) work in the DUA."

It would be obvious when SAI normal results would and wouldn't work.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[chuckpint]

Ok, now I see the real problem. The rule is just fine where it reads: "Note that unless the SAI generates normal results you are looking for in an individual roll or specifically states it works in the DUA, no SAI works in the DUA." What is misleading is the example. The example now reads:
"Example : A unit is targeted with a Poison SAI. When the unit makes its first save avoidance roll, it rolls a Cantrip SAI. The unit does not save, but it does get to spend the Cantrip because this SAI is applicable during a save roll. If it had rolled Cantrip during the second save avoidance roll, it would not count, because it is in the DUA, and no special SAI results (unless the SAI description states otherwise) works in the DUA."
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[Autpost]

[chuckpint]

The difference is simple. Earthen Armor provides a save if the unit does not save. You'll note there is nothing in the spell that says "if it did not roll a save" or the like. It simply generates a save for the unit if it needs it. Dragonkin on the other hand, generate an auto-save only if they are rolled and do not get belly. If they can't roll (Ivory dragons are a good new example), then they don't generate any auto-saves.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).