SFR, Inc.

[Raven Bloodeyes]

Does the Counter Icon on a Charkin generate 8 "counter-like" results?
Since, non-ID save results generate melee hits back on the attacking army, don't the 4 save results produced by Counter, result in 4 Scorching Touch results?
In addition, Counter itself does 4 melee hits back on the attacking army.
So doesn't this result in 8 total points hit back to the attacking army!?!?

-Am I missing something here?

Relevant Quotes from Starter Rules:

Scorching Touch: Scalders, when rolling for saves during the attack phase of a melee action, generate one point of
damage for each non-ID save result back against the attacking army. Only magical saves protect against this damage.

Counter: Resolution Type: Normal (melee, save, and dragon attack); Special
(save against melee)
During a melee attack, Counter generates melee results. During a save roll,
Counter generates save results. During a save roll in a melee attack, Counter
immediately generates both save results and melee results upon the attacking army
or unit. Only magical saves protect against this damage. During a dragon attack,
Counter generates save and melee results.

Thanks,
Jason

[piMaster]

[chuckpint]

Yes, and no. A Charkin's Counter generates 4 melee hits back on the attacking army. But since it is an SAI, and it's Special results, it generates the damage before save results are finalized. Then you finalize your save results, and apply any scorching touch saves back at the attacking army, including the Counter results.

Here's an example to show why it's important to make the distinction. Say an army attacks a army with a Charkin. Said army has a Wall of Ice currently active. The Charkin rolls a Counter, and no other Scalders roll non-ID save results. So first the Counter affects the attacking army. Since it has 3 magical saves (the Wall of Ice), it only takes 1 point of damage. Then the army with the Charkin counts up all the saves. At that point (where the save result is final) the Scorching Touch damage hits the attacking army. Again it has 3 magical saves, so it only takes 1 point of damage. Net effect against the attacking army: 2 damage (but if it had no commons, no damage).

So while 8 total points of damage go back to the attacking army, it does it 4 points twice, and therefore the magic saves do double duty.

Edit: piMaster beat me to posting this time, but he's wrong....
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
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Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[piMaster]

[Raven Bloodeyes]

Thanks!

I like the technical nuances! It helps me get a firmer grasp of what's going on. Also thanks for the fast replies, you guys are on top of things. Pretty soon, I think I might try for an online game, its been years since I've played at all......(Feral coming out was my last played with purchase). Anyway, great job on the new rules!

-Jason

[frdm02]

when you want an on-line game let me know I would be happy to play
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5,117 dice and counting (not all races are counted yet)

[DEEPBLUEB2]

Nice Discovery Raven Bloodeyes
I thought only the Fire Shield Icons counted for Scorching Touch.
The Dragonne Knight has Wings,
So those would produce Scorching Touch as well.