SFR, Inc.

[jmonnett]

Howdy,

I'm re-familiarizing myself with the rules and have tripped over a couple of odd things. I'm pretty sure I have a handle on them but would like confirmation.
Some may seem to be dumb questions. Apologies. Like I said, I'm just double-checking.

1) Ferry: (Firewalking, Teleport, a Cantriped Path) since it's a Special SAI, a ferried (or pathed) unit would *not* be able to contribute its normal results to the army's roll, yes?

2) Charm: when it goes off, are the chosen opposing unit(s) rolled and counted with the attacking army, or are the units chosen after the opposing army makes its save roll? Since Charm is Special, not Delayed, it would seem to be the former.

3) Counter vs. Open Grave: Since magical saves reduce damage from Counter's "bite back", any units killed by such damage would go to the reserves, right?
...
Of course. Never mind that one. I just re-read the "Stoneskin rule."

4) Gore: If a common unit is targeted with Gore, is it doomed unless it finds a way to save against *both* points of damage? The rules say: "Gore inflicts two points of damage on the target unit, which must generate saves against this damage or be killed and buried." Must it save against all the damage? I pondered this but decided instead to avoid the headache and nail an uncommon.

5) Burial resistance vs. kill-and-bury effects (Gore, Flame): An Undead unit targeted by such an effect could use its burial resistance to end up in the DUA instead of the BUA, yes?

6) Ashes to Ashes vs. Dust to Dust: They function exactly the same, yes? For some reason I was thinking A2A didn't target specific units.

7) Evil Eye vs. maneuvers-as-saves ability: Not very effective, is it? Evil Eye subtracts saves, not maneuvers, even if said maneuvers will eventually be counted as saves. (subtract, divide, multiply, racial abilities [we don't say "convert" any more] add)
Palsy, however, would suck away those pesky maneuvers, yes?

Thanks for the help.
I'll have more questions as they indubitably arise.

-John

[chuckpint]

[jmonnett]

First, thank you for confirming that I more-or-less know what I'm doing.

[chuckpint]

Oops, that's an old example, and it didn't get caught with the rules update. The Ash Storm would only subtract from the save results. The author of the example was doing it that way to deliberately show how rounding will affect your results. I'll have to issue an official errata for that one.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[DEEPBLUEB2]

Wouldn't the maneuver results be counted against the ash storm because of racial ability? (Coral elves count maneuvers as saves at a coastland)
otherwise I don't think they would be counted at all.

[chuckpint]

No Jim. The example is one where an army is rolling for saves. So any spells that subtract have to subtract from pure save results because the maneuvers are not converted to saves until a later step. Transmute Rock to Mud always subtracts from the maneuver results so it affects the final results. If there was a Blizzard in place as well, melee results would still be halved, but since melee results don't contribute to the final results, you would just ignore it.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[jmonnett]

Another thing to check:

Group monster IDs vs. Confuse: The timing of a group monster's re-roll isn't explicitly stated. It's ID is not an SAI, per se. Confuse kicks in before unique or special resolution SAIs, which means after instant resolution SAIs. All of the re-rolling SAIs (Rend, Tail, Stun, Double Strike, Flurry, Summon Dragon) are instant, so it stands to reason this is where a group monster's ID would go as well.
Thus, Confuse and other "I don't like that result so roll it again" effects cannot work their mojo on group monster IDs.
Is this correct?

Pertinent example: Dwarves attack Scalders and get a Confuse. On the save roll, Will-o-Wisps gets ID. After some consultation, they re-roll and come up with Fly. Now *that* result is fair game, so the dwarves tell the 'Wisps they're Confused and force them to re-roll. They come up with magic. Happy dwarves.
Is that is the way it works?

Thanks,
-John

[chuckpint]

Take a look at this thread:
http://sfr-inc.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1106&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=44

Basically, with Confuse, all the unit's results are lost. It starts over.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[jmonnett]

[piMaster]

[jmonnett]

Another dumb question. Probably because I missed something somewhere and haven't bothered to search the forum.

SAIs vs. halving effects: when determining the total to be halved, are SAI results counted as part of the total?

Example: an army rolling for magic under Dancing Lights rolls 4 points of Cantrip, 4 points of IDs and 4 points of regular magic icons. Do the lights negate 4 or 6 points of magic results? That is, would the army only loose the normal magic or would they loose 2 points of IDs as well? Is the total subject to halving 8 or 12?
(Many ways to ask the same question. Sorry.)

Dancing Lights says: "...halve the target army's missile and magic results."
Is that overall results, including SAIs, or only ID + regular icon results?
The other halving effects are worded similarly.

SAIs are not halved themselves, of course, so if they rolled 4 Cantrips and 2 IDs they'd loose both IDs at most.

I've always been a little fuzzy about this and the current rule book doesn't shed any light on the subject. None of the examples use a halving effect with a mixed SAI and normal icon roll. (or I missed it if they do)
I remember hearing one essentially sets aside SAIs while subtracting and dividing and pretends they're not there. Is this still the case and if so how might one be able to prove it?

-John

[piMaster]

[DEEPBLUEB2]

Not to add any confusion....
but when deciding on halving magic...
if you have regular magic results and IDs,
you must decide which magic results you will halve,
meaning that if you choose an ID (that could be doubled), over a normal magic result,
you will have less magic after the doubling is applied.


I hope I said that correctly.

[cliffwiggs]

I think you said it correctly, but let me restate it a different way.

When counting magic an ID is counted as its health value. ie don't double it.

after you halve it, THEN you double the id.

So yes, you are correct. If you have two adepts, one who rolled a magic icons and one that rolled an ID and you have to halve magic, you BETTER pick the magic icon or your oppoent will laugh at you (because you can then double the ID and you can't double the magic icon)

[jmonnett]

[chuckpint]

There are several examples. Take a look in the section "Special Action Icons – General Information".
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[jmonnett]

[DEEPBLUEB2]

If you do a search for the word "Before" in the rules...
you will find explanations of the what order and how to apply them,
these are like examples....
I hope that helped

[jmonnett]

[jmonnett]

New Question!

Replanting vs. staying put: May Treefolk units replant if no maneuver attempt is made, such as when they control an 8th face?
I would expect so, and this may have been addressed before, but, like it says, I'm just checking.

-John