SFR, Inc.

[Skawilly]

Does anyone else have the same problem that when a hybrid rolls its breath at any point in the game, even on the first round, in a 2 player game, its effectively over? I dont think I have yet to play a game that when any of the 2 players get hit with a hybrid breath they have a chance at winning.

[Drachenwurfel]

Nö.
I Lost Complete Armys in the First Round and ein the Game.
The breath is the only effektive weapon of a Hybrid Dragon, all other sides are underpowered.
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[chuckpint]

Depends on the amount of health, and to some extent, the colors of the breath. In a 36-health game, losing 10 health hurts, but it alone is not going to completely wipe out a player. They may have to retreat and spend a turn or two bringing back units. That may cost the game if it happens at the wrong time.

In an 18-health game, that would pretty much put the player away. But we don't recommend using hybrid dragons for "starter" games.
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[cliffwiggs]

[Drachenwurfel]

I Played a Lot of Games in the last Weeks, and there are only 2 things, that Happens when i sendet any non White Dragon:
1: They Roll breath and do serious damage
2: they make a littlebit or no damage, my Opponent killet them easy and promotet His units.
There was Not a Single Game, where a non White Dragon makes enough damage without breath.

This is Not the First Time where i Call Dragons weak, specially the Belly is a bitter joke.
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[DialFforFunky]

Considering the fact that summoning a dragon only costs 7, I don't think it's surprising that it often ends up not doing a whole lot against full armies. A dragon needs some support to be worth it. That's why the ash storm/dragon is such a classic combo.
Then again, the double breath of a hybrid dragon is a bit too much of a power-peak in my opinion. Outright killing 10 health for 7 magic, plus added effects which can be just as devastating, is a bit much for those 7 points.
Granted, it happens about 1/9 or 10 rolls, but it seems to be a bit too much beyond the borders of a 7 cost spell. I'd rather see a hybrid dragon have an auto-kill 5 health and both breath effects, or a slight price increase.


F

[piMaster]

I advocated an increased casting cost for hybrid dragons a while back, but simplicity won out.

[Drachenwurfel]

Simply get a 18 Point Army As you Play it in any tournament, and Roll a non White against it. You will see, only breath will hurt you.
I have Done it with different armys.
The problem are not only the Low Average damage of the Dragons, it is that you can promote your Units After beating the Dragon.
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[cliffwiggs]

most dragons I see rolled end up doing about 9 health of damage on the high end (a tail and a claw).

so 18 health would have to roll 50% saves to save all of it. thats not real common unless you are just save heavy.
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[Skawilly]

I am not at all saying that non breath is fine. Drachen is saying w/o breath they are worthless, and I am again not arguing this point at all. I am simply arguing that the hybrid breath is way OP. This is not exagerated data when I say that any game I have ever played on a 1v1 that one person is hit by a hybrid breath at any point, beginning or end, they have lost or will lose. Drachen is saying w/o the breath they are worthless. That maybe. I am saying that the breath its self is a winning hit indefinitely. Yes its 1 in 12, but its not really 1 in 12. Between always summoning of 2 dragons and the reroll of tails I would say its about 1 in 3 or 4 dragon attacks, and it only ever takes 1 breath.

Chuck says to run to reserves and recover. Its not an option really. If your hit by a breath your forced into reserves. In this time, along with the breath itself, your opponent is burying you most likely but not really the issue, they are setting up for your return and/or getting their 8th faces. I just have yet to see anyone get hit by a hybrid breath and win.

[Denimwizard]

I have to say Breath is nasty especially with Hybrids. However Tails offer 3 damage and roll again. I have spammed 4 tails and a Bite for a whopping 24 pts of damage. I don't think dragons are useless with out the breath.

[Skawilly]

I actually agree with Denim myself. I have been taking drakes some times infact, because if you can get enough save modifiers on them it will do dmg along with the fact they have a rougher time promoting.

The way I see hybrid breath though, I think the owning player of the dragons should have the option to CHOOSE the color of breath, or the acting player or whoever. That to me would still give a good stance on them w/o insta pwn.

[evylution]

ive had mine summoned on me when i brought them to the table... the dual nature of the dragons allows the opponent (im bad at percentages) a 2 in 5 chance to summon them? unless you are playing undead right? ive been punished by my own dragons before. so its not unfair imop. same at bringing in a white dragon. anyone can do it.

[dtwalkex]

You know I have to say that I also think the hybrids are broke. I think that maybe a balancing is in order like choosing between either breath or up their casting cost.

[cliffwiggs]

am i reading something wrong or do we have two theeads going, one saying hybrid breaths are too strong and one saying they are the only good thing about a dragon?
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[chuckpint]

This is the reason for my crankiness lately. We have two (or more) threads going about the same thing..... Makes it hard to follow what's going on. Not only this, but Wilding, and other things.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[cliffwiggs]

chaos is always crazy.

im not one to bend to the will of the masses, but i do like to listen to what players think.

the industry is always evolving and sometimes games have to evolve with them and sometimes games have to hold true to what they know works.

dragons used to be 5 per claw and 10 for jaws and no damage for wings.

i could suggest that normal damage is upped again and breaths made weaker, but then someone would say that 7 pts of magic ends any game.

if i just make the breath weaker then dragons become worthless.

so changes like this have to be done very carefully and not based on just a few games or a few players experiences.
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[cliffwiggs]

btw... before someone suggests it. to make a complicated game simpler, an icon almost always has a single meaning . we cant have elemental claws be different than hybrid claws.
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[eggsaladsandwich]

[Drachenwurfel]

I think you have another gravity in the U.S.A, wich makes that the breath comes at any third roll
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