SFR, Inc.

[stormywaters]

Branching from the Spirit Furnace thread, what magic changes would you guys like to see in Rules version 3.0? Here are a few changes I'd make:

Transmute Rock to Mud is too good. I'd either make it an additive effect, or make it take place after doubling (which wouldn't work as written). Subtracting makes it hugely more powerful than say Wind Walk.

I'd like to see fewer colors with no offensive capabilities.

Wilding is a little too good, I think. The fact that it applies to melee AND saves, and is chosen AFTER rolls are made makes it incredibly potent.

[piMaster]

[piMaster]

I'd also like to see Ashes to Ashes brought up to 3 points.

[cliffwiggs]

[Skawilly]

I concur Mr. Wiggs. Very much so.
This is why I must say that keeping black a cheaper bury is crucial.

The other thing I would like to state is that Wind Walk and the like are 100% effective. TrtM is easily ignored with SAI movement. One create fireminions at an 8th face and your Flash Flood has failed. Pathing over a common on a TrtM hopes and your opponent rolls a rend and its over. 15 TrtM's cannot stop this but 15 Wind Walks is boo-koo movement.
_________________
Will
"There is more philosophy in a bottle of wine than all the books in all the world" - Some random wine cap -

[stormywaters]

[Skawilly]

[AgentofChange]

I have a radical thought. Why assume that we want to keep the spells we have?

A complete redraw of the spell lists up to and including getting rid of old spells, adding new spells, adjusting effects,adjusting cost, and moving spells from one color to another could all be done without necessarily changing how they are cast. (I'm not saying casting shouldn't be addressed just that it's a different topic)

I mean I was going through my old collections 1st edition rules and I noticed something striking, in fifteen years the basic spell list has only changed in very minor ways. Specifically the addition of 2 black spells, a casting cost increase on everything, and minor wording changes.

When I thought about it the original magic was likely designed with 2 things is mind: 1. The "magic era" trope of colors equating to elemental effects and that those effects should fit with the theme. 2. That magic bolstered and filled gaps in the armies that used those colors.

I feel both of those criteria are very very valid and should be adhered in a redraw but consider that the field has changed in a decade and a half.

Originally only black, red and yellow were shared by two races.

Now it looks like this-

Black: Goblins, Lava elves, Frostwings, Undead, Swamp Stalkers
Red: Dwarves, Lava Elves, Scalder, FireWalkers
Yellow: Goblins, Dwarves, Feral, Treefolk,
Green: Coral Elves, Treefolk, Scalder, Swamp Stalkers
Blue: Coral Elves, Feral, Firewalkers, Frostwings
Amazons get'em all

All five colors are shared by at least 5 races with different icon distributions and abilities. This is a far different matrix from which to determine what magic should do than what was originally there.

My proposal is thus:

A generic non-color specific list that handles things like Resurrection, Summoning, perhaps burying (if everyone should have it as they do now) etc.
Mainly because no race should be forced to use a racial spell to do something everyone else can already do, it's just not interesting.

A revisited list of of spells for each color consisting of 5ish spells that address the play styles and needs of the races that share the color as well as the thematic flavor of that color. I don't think that the colors should necessarily have abilities that are available to the other colors, making each color inform a unique magical approach and playstyle.

A revisited set of 2 Racial spells for each race (amazons and Undead would have to have some exception made) that allow that race to do something flavorful to their theme and if possible unique to only them. (i Point to Necromantic wave as my favorite example of what i consider a 'good' racial spell).

The end result of all this is that by stripping spells down and rebuilding the lists and racial spells from the ground up we can better balance the game as it stands now rather than patch it from what it was. In addition to balance we also can avoid an environment where things that are unique and interesting in some races are wasted on mundanities available to everyone else in others. Thirdly we can really put strong flavor and play style diversity into the colors and by extension the combinations that I don't feel truly exists right now.

[eggsaladsandwich]

Just a thought:
why not make magic castiing dependant on the Terrain, IE your army can cast only spells of the color of the terrain they are at. example: a coral elf army at a highlands can only cast red or gold spells. Doubling of magic points, if not just dropped, would still hapen only if your racial color matched the terrain. Since this would give all races access to all spells (terrain dependant) you could eliminate "Racial Spells" entirely and just have 5 basic spell lists. Give each race a couple of "Racial advantages" for flavor instead of the "racial spells".
This is with the intent of making magic more terrain dependant as traditionally thats where the "power" is drawn from anyway and it makes sense that mages would study magic of all colors.
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"Another days useless energy spent." Moody Blues

[chuckpint]

The "traditionally" you are referring to, is for Magic not for magic. Fantasy literature has the concept of "earth" mages, "water" mages, etc. They are specialized in that type of magic. They also have more power when they are "connected" to their element.

So Dragon Dice uses that concept. The only difference is that the races have two types of magic they are specialized in, not just one.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[stormywaters]

Amazons:

If we're talking about shrinking down spell lists, I have a suggestion. Instead of giving then a list of racial spells in different colors, how about this one racial spell:

Conjure Element: Cost 6 (any color)

Target any terrain not already under the effects of Conjure Element and choose a color (element). Add that color (element) to that terrain until that terrain's face changes.

They'd have the flexibility of gaining a third color, easier than other races at least. They could be masters of versatility, due to their inherent lack of elemental ties. As it stands, their spells aren't very good; I'd rather play Feral mages at a flatland, or Dwarf mages at a highland, etc.

What do you guys think? It's priced above Call Water, Deadlands, etc. but can be accessed from any color of magic (though Amazon-only).

[ddicerc]

While I'm not fond of the spell listed, I think Stormy has a point. Perhaps Amazons could be given fewer and better spells, but make them ivory so they can be cast on any terrain. That would allow them a small list of spells that aren't terrain dependent.
_________________
Steve "DDice" Braun
The Diceman's Gaming Pages: http://ddicerc.weebly.com
2014-2015 U.S. National Champion
(Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...)

[stormywaters]

[AgentofChange]

[stormywaters]

[eggsaladsandwich]

Amazon new racial ability:
WITCHCRAFT---Magic items, artifacts and medallions function normally and may be rolled in reserves area...this gives amazons the ability to cast any color magic from reserves with items only.
_________________
"Another days useless energy spent." Moody Blues

[stormywaters]

[eggsaladsandwich]

and when that 1 pt amazon gets lightning bolted, you had better of picked the right color magic item for the rest of your army or its done buried...
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"Another days useless energy spent." Moody Blues

[DialFforFunky]

[MikeD]

How many times have you had multi-racial armies that, when rolling for magic, ended up with 1 point of magic of their color "left over" after all spells for that color had been decided and announced. Meanwhile, the other race(s) in you army also had 1 point of magic "left over" . As a thought, why not have a limited number of 2 )mabe 3) point colorless spells that are defensive in nature?
_________________
Michael DeZearn
BUY MORE DICE!