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Are magical items units?

 
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Armin
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:09 am GMT    Post subject: Are magical items units? Reply with quote

In the older cdocument "Official DCM Errata and Rules Changes" from July 26, 2000 by Dave Papay, two FAQs are added about Magical Items:
1) Are Magical Items units? Answer is no)
2) Can Magical units gain the benefit of a Standing Stones eighth face and thus convert the magic results into the color of the terrain.

The rules about the Standing Stones tells that the effect only works on units.

What is correct?

My opinion is that Magical Items aren' units and thus don't get the benefit of the Standing Stones or any spells cast on units. If this is right, maybe you should add the Sentence "Magical Items are not units" in the section about the items in the advanced rules.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:27 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is stated in the glossary, magic items are not units . However, your point is well taken, I'll add a phase to the magic item description to point out that they are not units.[/i]
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Armin
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:15 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fine. But what about the problem with the Standing Stones?

If magic items can't convert the color everything is ok now. Which I think is best!

But if the colors the magic items are intended to be converted by the Standing Stones benefit. The rule about the Standing Stones can be change as follows:

Standing Stones: If your army controls a terrain with this icon, it allows (units) the army to cast magic of the terrain's color – even if the (units) army cannot normally cast that color of magic. However, no unit of the army can double its ID icons for magic unless both the unit and the terrain contain that color.

This makes the effect of the standing stones more a rule regarding an army (like most other major and minor terrain rules) and it could be applied to magical items as well.
As I said before, I would the magical items not to convert the color of magic.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:31 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want to be careful that in the wording of Standing stones, you do not alienate Cantrip.

Would magic items be handled the same way as dragonkin autosaves?

ie they are applied during the 'add' step, which is the last step of 'subtrace, divide, multiply, convert(countas), add'

Thus results from magic items are not effected by the previous steps (either positively or negatively)


Cliff
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:46 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no problem with the wording on Standing Stones, here's what it says:
Quote:
If your army controls a terrain with this icon, it allows units to cast magic of the terrain's color – even if the units cannot normally cast that color of magic. However, no unit can double its ID icons for magic unless both the unit and the terrain contain that color.

Notice how throughout the whole thing it says "units". So if I add a note in the Magic Item description to say that magic items are not units, then this is quite clear. Magic items only cast magic of the magic items's color. It cannot be converted by Standing Stones. And the results from magic items are normal results. Therefore, they are affected by any spell that subtracts or divides magic results. It would make magic-producing magic items much too powerful if their results could not be modified.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:51 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:

Would magic items be handled the same way as dragonkin autosaves?


What are you thinking Cliff? Go eat more fish.

As Chuck eluded, the answer is no. Draginkin autosaves are considered a racial ability, much like Scalder intangibility.

Magic Items are just normal results like any other die would produce.
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Armin
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:58 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now everything is clear. Thanks.

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riolis
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:14 pm GMT    Post subject: ok so they are not units Reply with quote

ok so they are not units, so in a 36 health game you could also use one MIAM per unit and they would not count toward the health total.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:58 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. They are not units, but they are still health of your army. But I see your point. At several places in the rules it refers to "units" in a manner that should include magic items. All those places should say "units or magic items". However, that gets wordy and tiresome quickly. So we really need to use a term that includes units and magic items in those places (mostly the army building section). The term "component" is already defined in the glossary as a term that means both. I will be updating the rules to make this change. Note: This is not a change in the rules, but just another clarification.
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