SFR, Inc.

[chuckpint]

I wanted to start this topic on magic items. I'd like to hear from the players what about magic items are broken, and what about magic items works with the current rules. I'd like to "fix" the rules for magic items for next year (deadline of April 1, no fooling). But before anyone proposes any rules changes for magic items, lets first figure out why they don't work.
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[chuckpint]

The icons progression on commons/uncommons/rares is broken. Commons average 1.5 results/health. Uncommons average 1 results/health. Rares (not counting SAI) average .66 results/health, if you count the SAI as 3, then it's .75 results/health. For races, the progression is 1.167 results/health for commons and uncommons (counting the ID), for rares the progression is bit harder, but most have a total of 19 (counting the ID), with anywhere from 3 to 6 SAI results. Just the straight 19 results in 1.056 results/health.

So the magic item uncommons are weaker than two commons. However, you only need 1 unit to "carry" an uncommon, you need 2 units to "carry" two commons. For units, a rare is only slightly weaker than a common or uncommon, but the SAI more makes up for that. The same cannot be said comparing the magic items commons vs the magic items rare. The common has at least twice the results per health than the rare.

So the major problem with magic items are that the larger health are weaker, with the small offsetting difference that it takes more units to carry the same health of smaller magic items.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[WickerD20]

Hello All,

Wanted to chime in for a second on magic items. First, I do not use common or uncommon magic items, just rares. Currently, my fielded army is the Vagha and I have three gold vorpal swords. I can not speak for the break down of magic items on the math side. I will have Chuck's word that on paper there is an issue. However, I can speak from personal experience that those three vorpal swords have changed the tide of battle more then once for me. You get a couple of decapitates and you can break the back bone of any army in a single turn.

Also, I use two artifacts. The gold golem and gold dragon staff. Those have been pretty good as well.

WickerD20

[chuckpint]

Ah, that brings up another point about magic items. They are fantastically good for their intended use. However, a Vopal Sword will do nothing for saves, missile or magic. Units always have at least a chance of an ID coming up. Now, I not saying that's a problem with magic items, just pointing out the limitations of them.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[Deeghter]

[Autpost]

[Majiken]

Oh, what the heck, I'll join in.

Frankly, I can't call them broken at all. If Chuck says there's a problem, I'll take his word for it, but it hasn't been an issue with our games here.

When I build an army, I may or may not use magic items. Sometimes I throw a golem and a couple of flicker foils in with my Frosties just to irritate Stan, and he regularly uses eyebiters and bronze targes with his Firewalker armies.

Helpful? Yes. Vital? No. Fun to have just in case they're needed? Absolutely.

Just my two bits.
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The Maj

Most people are like Slinkies ...
Not really good for anything,
but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

[Deeghter]

[Majiken]

Sometimes we play with a setup of 36h of units and 4h of magic items. Everyone has to use something, be it a four health golem to a combo of varying items. This is sometimes fun to do, but we don't do it often since only Stan and I have a fairly good set of items and artifacts.

Sometimes the sacrifice of units for items isn't worth it, which is why you won't find anyone in our group playing with more than 2h worth in a regular game.
_________________
The Maj

Most people are like Slinkies ...
Not really good for anything,
but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

[Deeghter]

[riolis]

the only way I could think of to make MIA more useful is sort of the Dragonkin way, add one point whatever per health. so a common could do 2-3 points damage and a rare -theSAI could do 3-6 points. I would only make things slightly off balance, but more in favor of their use.
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[MikeD]

I personally think a summoning pool (i.e. not count against the army points you bring to the game) for the magic items and artifacts is a good idea. Also, one should be able to promote them whenever regular units can be promoted (which gives one incentive to bring bigger items and artifacts. I also think the amount of effect for the SAIs on the Rare Items and artifacts could be raised by 1 point (so the SAI on the Rare would do 4 points of effect and on the artifact 5). Further, the spells to "kill" the items and artifacts would have to be revised to send them back to the summoning pool and be made more expensive. After all that's one of the problems with monster units - it's too easy to kill them and too hard to bring them back. (But that's another discussion )

Just my thoughts,

Later,
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Michael DeZearn
BUY MORE DICE!

[Autpost]

I would also prefer a Magestorm pool in general (instead of just a dragonkin pool).
And it may be confusing that certain item-SAIs count sometimes as 3 points of whatever (on a rare item) and sometimes as 4 (on a medallion). If a monster rolls a SAI, you always get (and expect) 4 points. For clarity reasons (and because of a welcome rare item power-up) it would be better to say: If a non-6-sided die rolls a SAI, you always get a fixed number of 4 points of whatever.

[Deeghter]