SFR, Inc.

[Crim86]

So I was in a VERY long and drawn out 36 health match with a friend, me as Ferals, and him as Undead. I regenerated what he did to me, and he basically shrugged off whatever damage I hit him with and brought it back (also had to burn WAY too much magic just to bury his dice). To make matters worse, he was EXTREMELY passive and just fortified all his units in the middle controlling a city. I had my home at an 8th face city, so we were at a stand off. ANY time I tried to take the other terrain and split my units, he would drop two black dragons on my home. I'd regenerate the damage after a few turns, and eventually he resigned, but the game lasted almost two hours. Whats the best way to stop someone who turtles RIGHT off the bat? Without having a long drawn out fight?

[Denimwizard]

Once i see a turtle happening i generally just get tired of it and i do something. In your shoes i would have moved to the abandoned terrain and moved it up. If i were in his shoes i would have been going head to head with you and just open graved when possible. Either way i try not to turtle too much.
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750 Dragon Dice and Counting!

[chuckpint]

Feral have many options in that case. Path a single unit to the unoccupied terrain and then turning it up would soon get that terrain to a point where he could not ignore it. So what if you had a single common at the other terrain, you could ignore and kill off any dragons that got dropped on your main army (except for breath). You can Hide that single unit, and pile Wind Walks on it if he brought units over to oppose you. Of course you could return the favor and keep dropping dragons on his army as well.
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[Crim86]

That's my sentiment exactly. I prefer to play as aggressively as able. My goal was to take that empty terrain, however ever time I made a play for it, those dragons were far too much a threat for 15 health to divide my forces... the other downside is I'd summoned a blue wyrm there, so I needed some firepower to kill it first.

[chuckpint]

Or just resummon the blue wyrm to the other player's army.
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[Crim86]

Wait... You can RESUMMON an already summoned dragon to a different terrain?

[thudthwacker]

[Denimwizard]

Ahhh yes I remember when Mike D showed me that trick. Oh man it was awesome lol. Only the Ivory's can you not move due to the affinity
You could have also summoned an opposite colored dragon to the same terrain and move there.
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750 Dragon Dice and Counting!

[Crim86]

THIS would have won me so many games if I'd realized summoning worked this way... Does that mean I can summon other players dragons out of their summing pool as well?

[Denimwizard]

Yep aslong as you have that color of magic
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750 Dragon Dice and Counting!

[Axelofdarkness]

Turtling is the only way I can even come close to winning but again I'm a passive player. I try not to go all out. I am sure there are other strategic things I can do, but because of the fact that I am new to the game I haven't tried anything else. I have only turtled twice and both times seemed effective, but then again I lost. So in conclusion I probably won't do it again.

[stormywaters]

If you're Feral, you have several strategies:

1. Turtle your mages at an 8th face. Lightning Strike until you win.

2. Turtle your mages at an 8th face. Path + Hide a unit to another terrain. Every turn, Wind Walk + Hide + TRtM the lone unit and move the terrain up. Win.

3. Play mages and melee, using at least 1 Elephant-Folk. Cast a bunch of Wilding on your melee army, swing hard. Repeat until you win, or just auto-win when you roll Trumpet on a melee attack.

[thudthwacker]

[cliffwiggs]

[Denimwizard]

Cliff i dont think turtling is bad, hell i have done it many of times. So your right its a style of play. Eventually i will grow tired of it and break the shell. I either pay for it dearly or I win lol
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750 Dragon Dice and Counting!

[Crim86]

I have nothing against turtling, in fact its a very legitimate way to regroup and rebuild after taking a serious beating. Defensive play is not my style, but can often be the appropriate tactical choice. I'm just looking to better understand game strategy and how to overcome obstacles in my path to winning.

On another note my kid brother royally trashed me in a game with pretty much the same setup as ours Axel. Me Feral, him undead, similar army comp as last game. He may be 13 but he has a helluva way with his dice <_<...

That's one of my favorite things about this game is that the strategy is fairly deep, and you never completely know how the game is going to go until you roll to victory... or not.

[Skawilly]

To me, turtling is hardly a problem. I am not against it. I usually only turtle for a couple of rounds. THere are times when its the entire games, and others where I wont do it at all. But uslaly every game its a couple of rounds 3 at the most.

The trick to not needing to turtle, get your dragon out where your mages are while turtling, then split your forces and send your 18 pts. of non mages else where, use your mages to support where your 18 points of non mages are lacking. its like to 30 point armies.

When fighting against a turtle, just ignore them. Move around them. There is no need to crack that shell usually. Just let them have whatever face they are on and let them rot. grab the third face. They are going to hammer you with spells but with any lucky in only a few rounds you will have advantage on that third terrain.
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Will
"There is more philosophy in a bottle of wine than all the books in all the world" - Some random wine cap -

[eggsaladsandwich]

[AC]

As Stormy has intimated, the advantage is Feral's in a "twin turtle." Both Feral and Undead are tough, but anything he can do you can do faster. If he wants to trade Fingers for Lightning, let 'im. Black magic is potent, but anyone who gets into a direct-damage duel against Blue/Gold magic is digging his own grave.

As an example: If he's a wise Undead player, he's brought a spread of rarities. Assuming a balanced field on your turn, Lightning Strike his Liches. With his DUA empty, you'll be denying him the advantage of Stepped Damage. Further, Huecuvas (per the MM) and Apparitions aren't shabby, but with their extra magic face Liches are the engine of a good Undead magic attack. While tough, they only have a 1/3 chance to survive the lightning (as opposed to the 50/50 chance for most Undead). Sure, they might get a Cantrip off as they die, but that's no sweat. What's he going to do -- Finger of Death a common? You're Feral; you get them back for free. Feel free to double-Lightning the Liches to make sure they die. If you've got anything left over, off some other mages. Without them, he'll be hard-pressed to bring everything back in one turn.

If anything is still dead when your next turn begins, you're going to Dust to Dust it. Yes, they'll resist some, but odds are on your side. Even if you only manage to kill and bury one unit a turn, you're grinding him down. He won't have sufficient magic to both bring back his guys and kill yours, and you'll eventually gain a decisive upper hand.

As has been pointed out, you also have Path/Hide/Windwalk. A lone Feral can keep up dragon-immunity and march the second terrain. Once you've worn down his main force with magic, you can head in for the kill or just capture the abandoned terrain.

In fairness, for the Undead guy: Time is against you here. Realistically, if you see a Feral start to mass everything he's got at one terrain, you could do worse than to follow him and turn him into wild giblets before he can reach the 8th face. Feral melee and save well; Undead melee and save better.

If you're each sitting on one 8, you can split your troops in half and rush the abandoned terrain. It will be a race, because he's going to be blasting you from afar, but you have the right guys to grit your teeth and soldier through it. Use your magic to hammer him with Palsies to mitigate the magic he can pour onto you. He might drop dragons on you, but so what? Undead eat dragons for breakfast. You're going to be losing troops left and right, so use the dragons for free promotions.

You can use spare magic to kill and Ashes to Ashes the furry buggers to slow them down, but your best bet is to ignore him and use magic to restore yourself (if he ever ends a turn with units in the DUA, Exhume!). Don't worry about leaving some bodies on the ground; they're hard to bury and they'll let you double your magic. Make liberal use of Night Moves to rush that second 8. Don't forget his ability to steal a terrain with Blue/Gold magic and be prepared to go from 6 to 8 on one turn (don't forget Restless Dead!).

These two strategies basically just play to each race's respective strengths (Undead toughness and Feral . . . everything), and if used against one another will really boil things down to the luck of the roll.

These are just a couple ideas, of course; there are plenty of other options available to you, but the point is that even if you're massed at one terrain, you're not going to win by sitting on your haunches.

[stormywaters]

First, I agree with most of your post. However: