SFR, Inc.

cliffwiggs · Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:26 pm GMT Post subject:

And in a tournament setting there are many times that you know you can't win so you do try to just not lose. It's a valid start of the metagame once you know you can't win. Someone who starts a tournament round with the intent to tie... Will ultimately lose the tournament. So they are ruining their own game as well as their opponent.
_________________
Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99

AC · common Joined: 26 Feb 2012 Posts: 317 Location: DC GMA

This may hold true for tournament play, but we can safely venture that the majority of Dragon Dice games played in the world take place in a non-tournament setting, wherein there are no referees, clocks, or rounds. It's probably wise to bypass a whole discussion on the psychology of losing in game theory and the lot, but undoubtedly there will be people content to ruin the game for everyone involved if they don't think they can win. I think the point is that in a casual setting the game can turn into a 2-hour snoozer and our objective might be at the least to either find ways to prevent/minimize this outcome (with attention to the rules/phrasing if the strategy really is superior), or make it clear to players that alternative strategies are more effective/entertaining (if indeed they are).

Skawilly · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:01 pm GMT Post subject:

cliffwiggs · Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:28 am GMT Post subject:

I heard last year about the first tournament held of dragondice back in 1994-ish. That person stopped playing because his opponent simply refused to take his turn. THAT is the ultimate turtle.

I can see how two people can get into a magic battle on two low faces. Its a mexican stand-off. The first person who tried to break the stale-mate will lose. so neither moves. THAT I don't know how to solve.
_________________
Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99

Skawilly · Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:05 am GMT Post subject:

Denimwizard · common Joined: 01 Jan 2011 Posts: 356 Location: Maryland

cliffwiggs · Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:53 am GMT Post subject:

Dolus · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:40 am GMT Post subject:

Drachenwurfel · uncommon Stockholder Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 970

If there is on official rule or not, as the Tournament Leader i would disqualify such a player.
_________________
All gone

Dolus · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:48 am GMT Post subject:

cliffwiggs · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:58 am GMT Post subject:

Yes, that was back in the 'don't be stupid' days before every little exception to every rule had to be written down. Thats why I have no patience for the 'the rules don't say I can't do it' approach. If you try to argue that point while I am the tournament director be prepared to duck, because the rules don't say I can't chuck a dragon at your head either.

note the lack of Mr. Green

in the above statement. perhaps that is why they don't allow me to be the TD anymore...
_________________
Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99

Dolus · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:29 pm GMT Post subject:

cliffwiggs · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:49 pm GMT Post subject:

That reminds me of players during the rubik's competitions that would purposely explode their cubes when they made a mistake. thus they got to start again with a new cube or even the same configuration, but they got a second chance. They had to put a 3 try limit on it due to SDA*

*SDA is a term which means Some Dumb @$$ and is a term we used while designing 2.0 to represent THAT GUY. Its why some of the rules are written the way they are. Because if we didn't do it, then SDA would ask about it.
_________________
Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99

Drachenwurfel · uncommon Stockholder Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 970

I Run really much Tournaments in Mage Knight and Star Trek CCG.
From the beginnend on, i made One point absolute Clear:
Beond the rules, there are some things i never would let go.
Even Tournament play should be fun.
_________________
All gone

AC · common Joined: 26 Feb 2012 Posts: 317 Location: DC GMA

To briefly return to topic (though I am all for violence against jerks), Skawilly's posts reinforce the notion from which I was operating. The solutions proposed -- from the Minor Terrain tweak to the double-march to the hold-to-win and on -- seem to be impelled by a consistent hypothesis: that there is insufficient discouragement to ignoring terrain capture and/or insufficient encouragement to capture terrains. Now, it could just be that the majority of players to have weighed in on the topic are low-risk sissies of the NFL coach mold (I josh, of course); I don't have the numbers on the actual risk-reward involved in moving vs. staying, and I doubt anyone has done such a study. Cognizant, however, that the aforementioned hypothesis may actually be correct, we may be well served to test the posted (and other) proposals of small changes that may rectify the issue (as some are doing) . . . which brings us right to where we already were, but it's as neat a coda as I can put on the thing at this point.

chuckpint · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:39 pm GMT Post subject:

Note: in our current swiss tournament system, you get more points for winning a game by taking 2 terrains (or wiping out your opponent), than you do for winning a game with only 1 terrain. You get less points than that for tying. See quote below: