SFR, Inc.

[Skawilly]

So I posted previously about monsters w/random icon distro (referring to SAI's)

After thinking about the kings die and other forms of things, like medallions and a LONG debate with Stormywaters.

I feel that 4 pts. in general is not a big deal. I think most people should consider having 4 pts. of something not related to their strat just for a game changing event or property. Now most may disagree but for the most part these things may not help that much, but its in my experience that eventually they will kick in and it will be worth every time they did nothing and more.

I think more than 4 pts. would hurt you but these 4 pts. just dont matter. Say your going for melee/magic, grab a random 4 pts. I am very adamant about this.
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Will
"There is more philosophy in a bottle of wine than all the books in all the world" - Some random wine cap -

[stormywaters]

I don't disagree that a miscellaneous four points will break an army, I just disagree that the Genie is worth those points. I just don't feel his abilities are game-changing enough.

I'll run a Dragonslayer for breath protection. I'll run a medallion for SAIs. I'll run various monsters for Dispel Magic. I'll run a Troll for Regenerate. I'll even run a Remorhaz for Swallow. I won't, however, run a Genie in the hopes that the one-of SAI that I want will appear at the precise time to make it worthwhile. Galeforce is useless most of the time. Firewalking is cool, but Ferry and Teleport are functionally the same and more common to come up.

I just don't see it.

[DEEPBLUEB2]

Use bonus points (magic items) to gain some extra points for the King.

[Skawilly]

I am gonna bump this thread. Still curious about this.

Lately I have been throwing in a rare Eldarim or Master/Lord specifically to promote kin on my way to 8. Its been very successful.

I still feel that 4 points outta 36 can take you very far if you distribute it some place odd. Even a simple bronze medal can do that. Or a griffon/unicorn. Just something to give your army the edge.
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Will
"There is more philosophy in a bottle of wine than all the books in all the world" - Some random wine cap -

[Skawilly]

So, this 4 randomly spent points is a base of my current strats as of late.

But, on another thread we had a discussion of amazons. From there the craziest idea came to me. Bottom line, just for fun I decided to take a medusa and stick her in reserves the entire game. I played as if she was not there, as far as my next moves were concerned.

It was perhaps one of the best decisions I could have made. I did eventually move it to 2 medusas which is nice because just about every other round one should get a stone off.

I just played my swampstalker/calv army as a turtle on my swampland as if a normal game ensued. If I split my SS's up I simply would not act with the medusas. it was amazing having them there giving me a second march in time of a turtle and a free smite every now and again.
_________________
Will
"There is more philosophy in a bottle of wine than all the books in all the world" - Some random wine cap -

[stormywaters]

[Skawilly]

But honestly ya 1 medusa is better than 2, Still though, I just dont mind being that short of points.

Lastly, its not there to support a turtle. Its just nice to have when you do turtle. It always depends on the situation and/or setup. I think with SS's 2 are better, maybe with Undead or dwarves 1 might be better.
_________________
Will
"There is more philosophy in a bottle of wine than all the books in all the world" - Some random wine cap -

[stormywaters]

[Blindfury]

No offense intended, but I think your strategy has some flaws.
The successful armies I’ve seen focus on certain kinds of tasks (the big 5 or some specific combination of SAIs and terrain.) Focus breeds consistency and quantity of results.
If you’re advocating for adding a unit with diverse IDs, then what you’re saying is that you’re hoping that at the one random time you need it a very statistically unlikely result will be rolled.
Monsters like unicorns, griffins, and fireshadows are used specifically because they can be somewhat relied upon to perform a specific task. Likewise, medallions are hardly what I’d call random. Bronze and gold icons are useful any time they come up. There are only a limited number of options for medallions. The rolls they contribute too are very common. So they aren’t what I’d call random at all.
If you’re selecting a monster or artifact that doesn’t perfectly dovetail with your strategy in order to counter a specific circumstance, that’s a contingency. If you’re selecting a monster just to add some randomness to your results then you’re essentially handicapping your army. Those points could have otherwise been spent on dice that could have enhanced the consistency and quantity of your die rolling.
That’s why magic is so desirable. You can get a magic unit to produce consistent results and then turn them into whatever strategic choice best fits your current needs. It doesn’t matter what stage of the game you’re at, a bunch of magic points will probably give you a tool you can put to good use.
I like picking components for fun and flavor some times, but randomness isn’t a strategic advantage in—and—of—itself.

[Kevsquatch]

No offense intended Blindfury, but I think criticism concerning the strategy of a player whom you have never had a duel with has some flaws. Perhaps you have missed the point that through randomness of a sort, one can discover strategies that range from nice little tricks to complete revelations. What's wrong with experimenting a bit to develop new and unique techniques? I find it vastly more entertaining and challenging to go up against an adaptive player who uses originality and versatility as their tools to achieve victory rather than the tidal wave of troll splashing, medallion running, Path/TRTM addicts who seem to be running around like lemmings at this point copying each other like #132 (ditto) vs. #132 (ditto) all day every day. This is a game first and foremost, you will lose, and if you are afraid to deviate from the "tried and true" you are missing out in the long term.

If more people dedicated 4-8 points to experimental monster/s and/or some magic items during casual play, the overall skill level of dragon dice players would rise substantially, new combos would eventually fall into place, Vorpal swords and Heartseekers might finally be recognized as viable strategic options, Unicorns would show up in Frostwing armies. And of course then we would have to stir up the pot all over again.

These rampant nitpickeries are beginning to grossly outweigh the well deserved positively charged collaborations that should be happening on these forums, and I hope that turns around once spring hits. Lets all get some vitamin D and relax. Good ideas wont kill us for crapssakes. I think constructive criticism is a better option than the nerdy Hal 5000 "you didn't spell/say/phrase/sell that right, Dave" unempathic nonsense that's been bombarding all the decent original concepts around the forums lately. Encourage new ideas, don't shut them out because they perturb the paradigm we have become comfortable with.

[DEEPBLUEB2]

[Urfaes]

[TheLazyhase]

By the way, does sealed/draft rules exist for Dragon dice ? In TCG, sealed and draft format often show you hidden use for nontrivial cards.

I would then add that usually, spending 4 point on something completely suboptimal in DragonDice is not that bad, because the difference between the worst dice (Ettercap ? Frost ogre ?) and the best one is reasonably slim. If you put too much bad dice, it will be a complete rout, but 1/9 seem fine and don't give too much of an handicap in my opinion (and my experience).

[Blindfury]

Ok,
Let me try this again. Skawilly, I disagree with your premise that unpredictability in an army is an effective strategy (see previous post for explanation.) That said, I’m all for experimentation and play testing, especially with dice you wouldn’t ordinarily try out. In my experience, medallions are reliable, but not as useful as common wisdom would suggest, likewise trolls. My previous comments were intended to address the mathematical premise of randomness as a strategy and not an attack on creative thinking.
I should have said that versatility is a good thing and taking something like a couple of chimera in an army for the chance to make one immune to magic and missile attacks or adding wolf pack to missile armies to reduce the enemy saves seems like it would be especially awesome.
Oh, and draft/sealed dragon dice sounds frigging sweet.
I so want to play a game of two headed dragon dice giant. Something like you and your partner pay $30 and open a kicker of goblins, dwarves, lava elves, coral elves, battle chest, and dragonkin. From those 6 kickers you have to build two 18 point armies which you then throw down against other like pairings of opponents.
How about peasant dragon dice, with only armies of commons allowed?

[TheLazyhase]

[Blindfury]

If we’re following the MTG 2HG template, I’d think the store would have a selection of terrain dice available to choose from. Alternatively, you could add a kicker of battle map. I’d think the easiest way to do things would be to treat each team as a single 36 point army with a corresponding choice of dragons. An expensive but entertaining format.
From my own experience, playing with an all-common army makes the game simpler for starting players. SAIs add a level of complexity and timing that can be challenging. If I had it all to do over again, I wish I had started without SAIs and worked my way up, reading the rules multiple times. As it is, I’ve had to unlearn much of what I originally took to be self evident. Actually, my group has been re-reading the rules and double checking everything lately. I have a new appreciation for how complex a game can be.

[Urfaes]

Sealed and Draft rules can be found in the Tournament Rules, section 4.2 http://www.sfr-inc.com/TournamentRules.pdf.

I've never actually played two headed giant. I should look into trying that. Especially when using the Nature vs. Death variant also found in the Tournament Rules: Death armies have the black element; Nature armies don't.

My Uncommon Army (uncommon magic item + relatively even distribution of uncommon dice) didn't fare all that well; I'd be interested in trying an all common army to see how that compares.

[Blindfury]

But your 1-of-everything tree folk stomped me like a boss.
God, I hate tree folk. That was brutal.

[stormywaters]

I felt this post was way out of line, so I wanted to say a few things.