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Next chance to challenge my Undead army!
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Deeghter
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:06 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDiceRC wrote:

I have to say, Dieter, that you have some of the worst luck I've ever seen when it comes to making save rolls


Well, I had some good rolls in this game but mainly they're desasterous, not only regarding to my save rolls! In the game with Brad it was catastrophic, in this game it's approaching average, but I'm still not really satisfied with my rolls! Sad

Shocked by the loss of their leaders the Undead decide to call for assistance once again.....

1st March:
Rolling my horde for magic: --> Revenant ID, Apparition ID and 2 icons from Apparition =5.
Doubling the IDs via the dead in my DUA for a total of only 8, that won't bring back lots of units and two magic points would expire again Evil or Very Mad!!! Sad


Now......what am I gonna do?.....::think, think::.....re-reading my spells available::......Idea Idea Idea Twisted Evil !!!! I never tried this before, so I'll just go for this!

.....yes! That's what they will do, calling for assistance!!! But this time their foes will be surprised about the kind of assistance, har, har, har Twisted Evil !!

I cast 1 x Haunt, forming all my dead units into an army attacking your frontier army!! Come on, Minor Deaths, don't fool me now!!!

Roll, roll...... --> 2x Convert (I choose your Sharpshooter(R) and 1 Enchanter(R)), 1 x Plague (I choose 1 Enchanter) and 5 melee from Vampire and a Wraith.
Please resolve the SAIs (including re-rolling further units of your choice if the plagued unit can't save) and then roll for saves against the 5 melee hits.


Question: When the converts are resolved and your converted units don't manage to save, I'm allowed to bring in units with equaling health from my DUA. But presently there are no units in my DUA, they're attacking you at the frontier. Does that mean that I can't bring any units back since there are none in my DUA presently???

Growling moans escape the graves, skeletal fingers and decaying hands break through the earth from underneath. A tombstone falls over and glowing eyes shimmer through the fog patches which cover the graveyard floor. A few seconds later a horde of tottering and feet dragging dark shapes move through the swamp, heading for the frontier coast.....
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:33 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Die(ter) wrote:
Question: When the converts are resolved and your converted units don't manage to save, I'm allowed to bring in units with equaling health from my DUA. But presently there are no units in my DUA, they're attacking you at the frontier. Does that mean that I can't bring any units back since there are none in my DUA presently???
Convert will kill some units that don't save, but will not bring anything back, because there is nothing in the DUA. Likewise, you can't do any stepped damage on the counter-attack.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:42 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Chuck!
I was afraid that there is "a hook" on casting Haunt! Wink Laughing Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:12 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Selumari are surprised by the sudden assault from below. They gather to ward off the attack. Their Sharpshooter and an Enchanter turn gray and fall, while the other Enchanter shakes off the Plague. A blue Kintroop joins the fray. After initially hiding, the Kinchamp breathes on his Undead foes, while the rest of the Selumari swing desperately at their foes.

Good tactic, Dieter!

Resolving Convert: Sharpshooter killed, Enchanter gets a Cantrip, which he uses to summon a Blue Dragontroop before he expires. Good thing you can't bring back your dead!

Resolving Plague: Enchanter rolls two shields!

Save roll: I can go into detail if you want, but thanks to the 8th face I got 25 saves, even with my big D'kin going belly up.

Counterattack: Kinchamp makes up for his cowardice by rolling breath. Then I got 6 swords, two kin claws, and Archer and Knight ID for a total of 9 more hits. Pathetic.

Quote:
Question: Given the wording of the spell, the Undead also cannot resist burial after this attack, correct?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:47 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDiceRC wrote:
Question: Given the wording of the spell, the Undead also cannot resist burial after this attack, correct?
Of course they can resist burial. Anytime any Undead unit is being buried, it gets to resist that burial. Of course getting a non-ID save isn't always that easy.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:11 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Of course they can resist burial. Anytime any Undead unit is being buried, it gets to resist that burial. Of course getting a non-ID save isn't always that easy.


Kind of takes the sting out of Haunt, then, since it's an Undead-only spell. It forces the player being attacked to kill an already-dead unit, which then may only have to return to the DUA anyway if it resists burial. Although, on the plus side, it does make the Undead more playable, which is a desirable outcome.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:10 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep! I agree, Steve! And regarding the present situation I'm glad that I have the chance to resist burial!! ::sweat::

Steve, if you roll a Dragonkin Breath, you are allowed to choose the victims BUT:
I've re-read the entire game, following it step by step but I couldn't find any action of yours that summoned a Kinchamp!! And I only have two troops and a hero in your army on my playing table. How could you roll a breath?? Either you or me have a setup mistake but according to the posts you haven't summoned a Kinchamp but have always used up your magic points (so you might not have forgotten to mention the summoning), so I guess you mixed up your D.kinhero with a D.kinchamp??

Please re-check, Steve.

After that I will resolve your Breath (if still there) and then your attack.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:28 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct again. Someone has been tampering with my army! (Or, more likely, my dice are getting pushed around by my sons as they play at our much-too-small game table.)

Rolling Hero instead-3 claws, so no breath, but now 12 hits.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:03 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDiceRC wrote:

Counterattack: Kinchamp makes up for his cowardice by rolling breath. Then I got 6 swords, two kin claws, and Archer and Knight ID for a total of 9 more hits. Pathetic.


aahmmmm...should be 12, right? (6+2+2+2) And now adding your Dragonhero's hits (3 claws) it is a total of 15!
Forgot to mention this in my last post even though I already had noticed! Embarassed

Rolling for saves: --> 8 shields from Vampire, Minor Death and Skeleton + 2 Wraith IDs for a total of 10 saves.
I choose a Vampire and two Wraiths to be buried if they fail to save by icon:
roll, roll: --> 1 Wraith saves by shield, Vampire and second Wraith are buried!

2nd March:
Rolling Reserves for magic: --> Skeleton ID! No use!

Reserve phase: moving reserves (1 Skeleton and 1 Apparition) to join my horde at your home terrain.


I'm finished....ähhhhh...I mean DONE! Laughing Laughing Laughing
(nope, I don't give up! Mr. Green Was just a joke! )
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:02 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for picking up my miscues, Dieter. The attention I've been paying the last couple of days, I should be getting my butt kicked instead of having my opponent bail me out! (Not only did my kin get mixed up, but I already had your reserves at my home.)

The fear of Haunt has been put in me. Time to change strategy.

An Archer starts wielding hitherto unseen power, and goes to join the mages. The army, fearful of another surprise attack by the dead Undead (the UnUndead?), pleads with the mages to help. Mana sends the Air Wyrms from the Undead swamp to the Selumari home city. A pair of kintroops, one blue, one green, join the army to assist against another Undead incursion. A scout is sent off to explore.

OK, city promotes an Archer to an Enchanter.

Rolling magic...10 wands, Enchanter and 2 Evoker IDs=20 after doubling.

Summon the two blue Wyrms from your home to my home. Summon a blue and a green Dragontroop. (Need those saves and melee muscle more than my Archer!)


A lone Horseman retreats to reserves. Done.

Guess I can roll dragons...

The Air Wyrms have a mixed reaction. One swishes the Undead, then offers a treasure. The other spits lightning. The Undead decide they are sick and tired of lightning!

Weird roll:

1st Wyrm-Tail-treasure
2nd Wyrm-Breath
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:11 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome, Steve (but your Dragons aren't! Wink Laughing )

Resolving Blue Dragon Breath first: --> I choose Spectre, Revenant and 1 Apparition. Let's see if they can save individually: --> Revenant saves by shields, Spectre and Apparition get killed. I bring back a Wraith for the Spectre (stepped damage).
Until beginning of my next turn this army can only make save rolls and save avoidance rolls due to blue dragon breath. In my now following combination roll against the dragon attack only saves are counted. No way to kill the Dragons!

**squeeeech** (opening treasure chest).....now look at that! SURPRIZE Surprised !! There's a Vampire sitting in there! OK, sorry Revenant, but you gotta go!
Revenant jumps into the chest, sulking! Chest is being catapulted into my DUA and returns empty.

= Revenant gets promoted to Vampire by treasure chest.


Resolving dragon attack:
Roll, roll, ---> Heucuva ID and 1 shield from an Apparition. Saves doubled by 8th face = 6. Enough to save against the tail attack. Smile

Reserve phase: --> pulling everything back into reserves!

I'm done, my turn ends.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:11 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
**squeeeech** (opening treasure chest).....now look at that! SURPRIZE !! There's a Vampire sitting in there! OK, sorry Revenant, but you gotta go!
Revenant jumps into the chest, sulking! Chest is being catapulted into my DUA and returns empty.


LOL! This has to be one of the best story lines I've ever read-and I've written a few in my time!

This could be interesting...now let's hope I have everybody where they belong.

The Undead desertion of the coast city sparks activity in the Selumari camp. Magic is called for! Mages (and some cavalry!) provide a moderate wave of mana. A blue Dragonfoal tries to help, but forgets he doesn't know how to do magic. The Air Wyrms are sent back to the Undead swamp. Hanlas orders the Horseman from reserves to scout out the city.

Since you abandoned the city, my home turns down to 7.

Rolling magic...

4 Cantrip, 7 wands, 2 Horseman IDs=15 after doubling. (Accidentally rolled a blue Foal, who got an ID, but it doesn't work anyway. Smile )

Summon the two blue wyrms from my home to your home. Last one fizzles.

Horseman in reserves goes to my home in a desperate attempt to wrest it back.

Done.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:12 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDiceRC wrote:

A blue Dragonfoal tries to help, but forgets he doesn't know how to do magic.


**LOL**! This one's not bad either, hee, hee!

DDiceRC wrote:

Since you abandoned the city, my home turns down to 7.


Yep! Forgot to mention, but I did!

1st March!
Rolling reserves for magic: --> very nice roll! Finally!! Hope that helps me a little! I got 11 icons from 1 Vampire(3), 2 Heucuvas(3 ea) and 2 Apparitions(1 ea) plus an Apparition ID. (I guess there can hardly be a better roll with an army like that!!! Razz Razz ) TOTAL: 12
(Unfortunately I can't double in reserves!)

I'll Haunt your frontier army again! Oh! Dang! Can't target a DUA from Reserves!! Disregard!

Well, Reanimating Dead 4 times --> bringing back Spectre and Revenant!
(They join my Reserves!)

Reserve Phase:
Moving all reserves to your home!

I'm done!

I know what probably comes next! But please feel sorry for the Dragons! They might get dizzy from circling back and forth all the time Laughing Laughing )
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:34 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I don't think the dragons are going to have much to worry about this turn.

One of the Archers proves worthy of being a Sharpshooter. Hanlas orders more magic from the frontier army. Mages comply with power, and even the lesser troops manage some assistance. Fog envelopes the coast tower, while heavy winds back the Horseman scout.

Using City, promote Archer to Sharpshooter.

(I just noticed I did make an error last time. I sent the Horseman to my home terrain, as I said, but in the description I called it a city, not a tower. I hope this didn't confuse you, since the actual turn described it correctly.)

1st March:

Rolling magic...

I almost feel guilty about this one (but not too guilty).

14 wands, IDs from 3 Bowmen, a Horseman, and an Evoker=24 after doubling.

Wall of Fog on my home. 4 Wind Walks on my Horseman. With the two left, what the heck, a Watery Double on the frontier.

2nd March:

The Horseman catches the wind and rides it, trying to get into the tower.

Attempt to maneuver my home. Oppose? Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:41 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDiceRC wrote:
... I called it a city, not a tower. I hope this didn't confuse you, since the actual turn described it correctly.)


No problem! That was clear enough! Very Happy

Yes, I oppose of course!!!

--> 6 Maneuvers (Spectre, Heucuva, Apparition IDs and one foot from a Skeleton!
You're not only winning this maneuver,

YOU ARE WINNING THE GAME!!! You've just captured your second 8th!!


Congrats, Steve! Razz Razz
Nice game!! Razz Razz
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:21 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, officially move my home to 8th and capture it.

The Selumari scout hurried past the shuffling dead and sealed himself in the tower. The elves now controlled the battlefield!

That was a very interesting game. You pulled off some moves that caught me completely by surprise (and have now given my son, who loves to play Undead, some ideas for his next game).

One suggestion I would make is to add more straight-up melee troops to your mix. Yes, Plague is a lot of fun, but the Minor Deaths only have a 30% chance to save against Lightning Strike. Even with stepped damage, that hurts. Besides, had you actually succeeded in Plaguing me, I would have chosen a Dragonkin as my next unit, with a 5 in 6 chance of saving.

Convert, on the other hand, I like. You didn't get a chance to use it in a regular battle, but that could have helped get some of your dead units back.

Haunt is a better spell than I thought. I always assumed burial was automatic, since it is an Undead-only spell, but Chuck set me straight. I can see this being useful against a mage-heavy army-pop out of the DUA, whack some mages, probably suffer little in return, and go back to the DUA. If I played Undead I might just try it.

You could use some more mages. If you could have gotten enough magic to bring back more units or Finger of Death mine, you might have done better in a magic duel.

You did get nailed by some bad luck. You had generally lousy save rolls, and my dragons only offered you treasure when they breathed. That, and one of them gave me quite a few tails-think I'm going to set that one aside for future use. Smile

I don't like playing Canadian, and I was going to try to force you off the 8th face earlier, but Haunt scared me. So that was an additional positive to the spell.

Your best bet might have been to bunch up and come straight for me at the frontier when it was on melee faces. Once I got the 8th, it was blue magic all the way. I did have to concede my home 8th to you, though, because of my failure to have the terrain on the correct face. That made life interesting.

My biggest advantage was the ability to directly attack your big units with Lightning. Your Finger of Death spell would have taken 12 points to nail one of my rares (although that would allow no saves).

Also, use more common Dragonkin. They're easier to summon, less devastating to lose, and although Degenerate Dragonkin buries them, you can then get new ones back. Once I nailed your 3 commons, you had very little chance of getting more back. I usually use 7 of commons and one uncommons and one rare in case I get a chance to promote. If you play against the Coral Elves, don't summon too many until the CE have theirs in play, which makes them reluctant to use Degenerate since it buried all of theirs.

With Undead, the best general line of attack is to press melee and use magic in support. Even their fastest units are no match for most races' cavalry. You might even have had a better chance if you had come to my 8th earlier on and challenged me at melee-while I had maneuvers as saves and double saves, the Plague/Slay/Convert SAIs could have gotten me anyway. (Just like what I hoped would happen with the dragons-their main attack wasn't too hard to save against, but Breath is nasty, and you can always hope for tails...)

If you want another challenge, I'm willing to play again. Try tweaking your Undead, and I'll play the same Selumari army (so you can even plan specifically to counter what that army can do, if you want).
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:37 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just put my comments into your quote box in red letters, that's faster!

DDiceRC wrote:

One suggestion I would make is to add more straight-up melee troops to your mix. Yes, Plague is a lot of fun, but the Minor Deaths only have a 30% chance to save against Lightning Strike.

I see the problem with plague, but I just love it so much! Twisted Evil. But you are right, I will remove one Minor Death and replace it! I'll keep one just for the fun, maybe I'll change that later.

Convert, on the other hand, I like. You didn't get a chance to use it in a regular battle, but that could have helped get some of your dead units back.

My biggest mistake was not to be patient! I divided my armies too early giving you the chance to hit me bad with your bulked CE at the frontier! I tried to keep you from capturing the frontier but it didn't work. I really had some desastrous rolls in this game!!

Haunt is a better spell than I thought. I always assumed burial was automatic, since it is an Undead-only spell, but Chuck set me straight. I can see this being useful against a mage-heavy army-pop out of the DUA, whack some mages, probably suffer little in return, and go back to the DUA. If I played Undead I might just try it.

Yep! I tried it for the first time and even though I wasn't very successful with it, it showed that it can be a big surprise and a pain in the ...! I'll use that more often!
On the other hand: It's pretty new for me to have that many dead units in my DUA at all! My Undead army was deadly in my games at home. (well, my opponents were all DD greenhorns! I at least knew the tactics in theory from reading lots of rules, DCM, etc)


You could use some more mages. If you could have gotten enough magic to bring back more units or Finger of Death mine, you might have done better in a magic duel.

Magic duel was not intended! But since I had divided my armies too early I was busy reanimating units (but got bad rolls!) and when I got good rolls, I was in Reserves!!
Again I have to look back at my games at home which are the only ones I played so far (except for our chatroom game, Steve). I hardly got any roll below 12 or 15 and that pretended to be enough magicians.


Your best bet might have been to bunch up and come straight for me at the frontier when it was on melee faces. Once I got the 8th, it was blue magic all the way. I did have to concede my home 8th to you, though, because of my failure to have the terrain on the correct face. That made life interesting.

Second that!! Again my fault to divide too early instead of forcing you in melee!

My biggest advantage was the ability to directly attack your big units with Lightning. Your Finger of Death spell would have taken 12 points to nail one of my rares (although that would allow no saves).

Yep! FoD is f...g expensive compared to the damage it inflicts! Additionally I had no time to use it! --see above--

Also, use more common Dragonkin. .....

I already realized that and changed that in my game against colanius.

If you want another challenge, I'm willing to play again. Try tweaking your Undead, and I'll play the same Selumari army (so you can even plan specifically to counter what that army can do, if you want).

Feel free to change the setup a bit, I like to be surprised! But I'd really love to play another one! I'll post when I'm ready! I'll getcha, Steve............some time.......in the far future........maybe! Laughing

::130 members moaning: "Oh no, not the spookies again!":: Laughing


Resumee: I'm still making too many mistakes, I should be a little more patient and I'm still working on optimizing my armies anyway. These forum games help a lot, I can tell you!! And anyone who doesn't have enough different opponents to play against and doesn't take this chance....well, he can't be helped Laughing Mr. Green Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:18 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Feel free to change the setup a bit, I like to be surprised!


Maybe I will, then. I'll put together an army that goes opposite the Undead strengths, so it may come down to who gets favorable terrains and maybe who gets the good rolls.

As for splitting vs. bunching, unfortunately once one player goes Canadian, the other player(s) often get stuck playing that way, too, at least until someone builds an advantage (or has gold magic, so they can Path their way to a win). I've been trying to find a good general strategy against Canadian tendencies, but it seems you have to be prepared to fight the army that faces you, and you need a variety of tactics available.

We once worked out an army restriction rule for the CWC (on the CWC page at the DDRC site). It made for an interesting game, and definitely made us think about army placement throughout the game. It's not a terribly "realistic" rule, but this is a fantasy game after all.
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