SFR, Inc.

[chuckpint]

We've been kicking around some ideas for the new starters. We thought it would be interesting to see what all our loyal customers thought. So we have two proposed ways that we are going to make starters.

1. Five different racial starters: Each starter would have a single race in it. There would be 8 commons, 5 uncommons, 2 rares, 2 terrains, and 1 dragon. The races are: Coral Elves, Dwaves, Lava Elves, Goblins and Amazons. The box would be marked on the outside (but on the back) with the name of the race in the box. Retail price is $12.95
2. Three different 2-player starters: Each starter would have the same number of dice as 2 kicker packs, plus 4 terrains, and 2 dragons. A kicker pack has 4 commons, 2 uncommons, 1 rare and 1 monster. There would be two sets of races in the package, each with the same number of dice as a standard kicker pack. We are thinking that the races would be Coral Elf/Lava Elf, Dwarf/Goblin, Amazon/Swampstalker. We do not have the $$$ to make a new set of molds for the "5th" monster of the first five races, but the Swampstalkers would have all 5 monsters (same rarity). Box would be marked with the names of the races inside. Retail price is $16.95

_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[relic10]

The only problem I foresee with scenario #2 is that the Amazons/Swampstalkers starters would be flying off the shelves while the others would not since the original starters are still abundant, and thus are the first four races, while Swampstalkers are so rare...Especially when the possibility of finding an Ormyrr inside the box exists. It just seems there would be a big disparity among purchases of the various racial starters. This is of course is assuming they are marked on the outside of the box; if not, then it really wouldn't matter, I suppose. It would actually certainly help sales, as people who would not otherwise buy starters would do so hoping to get the Amazon/Swampstalkers box.

[ddicerc]

One option to correct the disparity in sales would be to make more Amazon/Swampie starters than the others. Economics will play a big part in what gets done, though.

Which leads me to think of a question (if you don't mind, Chuck): How many people would be willing to pre-order a case (or multiple cases) of starters at our normal case price (buy 11, get 1 free) to generate some cash flow, knowing that you wouldn't get delivery until they arrived this summer? This might allow for extra Amazon/SS starters to be made. (Count me willing to buy at least one, possibly two AM/SS cases-my sons still need a lot of those dice.)
_________________
Steve "DDice" Braun
The Diceman's Gaming Pages: http://ddicerc.weebly.com
2014-2015 U.S. National Champion
(Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...)

[chuckpint]

Steve, you're getting ahead of me. How much they would buy was my next poll.

No hard numbers yet, but with the 3 different 2-player starters, we were thinking about many twice as many Amazon/Swampstalkers as the other two. Actually with the 5 racial starters, we were also thinking about making twice as many Amazons as the other 4.

We'd love to take preorders, but PayPal frowns on it. Doesn't say we can't do it, just they don't like it.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[Majiken]

Too bad there can't be both. I have to agree, though. The combo of Amazon/Stalker would have to have a greater number made to keep up with demand. From what my customers tell me, everyone will want Stalkers. Not that I'm complaining, mind you. Then again, there is an advantage to being the only player to have them...

Dang it, now I'm getting all excited about the summer season...
_________________
The Maj

Most people are like Slinkies ...
Not really good for anything,
but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

[anset]

Ok, I'll be the cynic...

If making the Amazon/SS starter is the only way to get swampies back on the market, sure I'll buy them.

But that does mean that a swampie "kicker"would be almost twice the price of the other real kickers. The amazons you'd get with the 2p starter would be rubbish in comparison to the ss.

If you are planning on making new ss kickers at the same time, I don't think you'll sell many amazon/ss starters.

Personally, I'd stick to 2 2p starters with elves, dwarves and goblins and make new swampie kickers.

wkr,

Anset.

[chuckpint]

Right now the choice is 2-player starters or racial starters. It would be at least 2 years before we could make Swampstalker kickers again.
_________________
You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Dice sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Dice, 20,000 Daemon Dice, and others (too many to count).

[Arkain]

Problem I see with the first racial starters and reason for me voting the way I did... the racial starters have NO MONSTERS?!... sorry not interested.

I would want the ability when I buy a racial starter to get their monsters as well.... even if it was only 1 per box.

With the two player starter.. I lose 1 uncommon, 1 rare... for 2 monster <chances at the rare monsters, Coral Giant, Umber Hulk, Chimera, Omyrr....> for $4.

Just my 2 cents.

[chuckpint]

[Arkain]

Umm, think you misunderstood. The point you make about GAINING the 2 monsters while losing 1 uncommon and 1 rare... I concur, that is definitely worth A LOT more than a $4 difference.

Thus, why I would not buy the racial starter, but buy the 2-player starter instead.

Our points are the same, you lose 2 dice to gain 2 more powerful, more chances at rare die... being the rare monsters, the examples I gave.

Sorry if I did not state the point more clearly... but I agree with you.

[Jay Loomis]

Is there a reason for not having monsters in the single racial starter option?

[ddicerc]

[chuckpint]

[Autpost]

Basically forum members voted for Swamp Stalkers and against no-monster starters (and not for 2-player starters or racial starters).
If there would be just four $12.95 racial starters, one of them Swamp Stalkers and one monster in each pack, then the result of the poll would be closer. (For instance: 6 commons + 4 uncommons + 2 rare + 1 monster = 24 health.)
Still I believe, the 2-player version would win. It is somehow more attractive.
_________________
"Don't be a pessimist, be an octopus!'' (Selumari motto)

[dead_mike]

I came to this discussion waaay too late, but hopefully I can still chime in.

The first thing is, that I don't think the readers of this forum is your target market for any new product you decide to make. I know the people here buy a lot of what is currently being sold, but I thought the idea of the new starters was to bring new blood into the game. Because of that, the fact that everybody on the forum wants more Swamp Stalkers shouldn't sway your decision on what is best for the game. I would even say that Swamp Stalkers is probably the worst race you could include in a new product since they are so hard to get. If Timmy buys an Amazons/SS starter and then decides he wants more Swamp Stalkers, what is he going to do? He will have to shell out more money and end up with a bunch of Amazons that he doesn't want.

That leads to the second thing - the two racial starters ignore the whole problem of being able to bolster the ranks of your favorite racial army (without a second, possibly unwanted race tagging along). When I want more Dwarves I will only have 2 choices - buy Dwarves and Goblins, or buy the original Kicker and take my chances. Neither choice is good, and neither one solves the original problem.

This leads into the third thing though - I think it is absolutely important that the new starters include enough dice for two people to play the game. If Billy gets the game for his Birthday, but Timmy doesn't own any Dragon Dice, the game will quickly fall out of Billy's favor. That being said, I think the best way to solve both issues (have a 2-player starter, have a way for players to buy only the races they want) is to have single-race 2-player starters. I personally think that would be the best route to take. Billy gets Dwarves! for Christmas and plays with Timmy the next day. Timmy likes it but wants to try the Coral Elves, so he buys a new Corel Elf Starter. Next month Timmy and Billy decide to beef up their armies and buy a second Elf and Dward starter respectively (as opposed to traditionally buying 2 single-race kickers each).

I don't know how much sense I am really making here (I am just kind of rambling on), but I will just lay out a few points:

* Everybody loves single-race kickers. You want more Scalders? Buy Scalders! You want more Treefolk? Buy more treefolk!

* A lot of collectable games begin with a 2-player starter, that way you only have to get one person to invest in it before deciding if they are going to play it.

* People on the forums love Swamp Stalkers because they are powerful and they are hard to get. If the 2-race starters had been C Elves/L Elves, Dwarves/Goblins, and C Elves/Goblins would anybody here have voted for them?

Anyway, I know this is probably a long-dead isssue (I haven't hit the forums in months), but just felt like I should throw my two-bits in.


Mike