SFR, Inc.

[diggity60503]

Does Double Strike have any effect during a dragon attack? A strict reading seems to indicate that it doesn't.
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465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212

[DialFforFunky]

Hmm, I never noticed, but I guess they do not function indeed. Odd.


F
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717

[cliffwiggs]

This is one of the more funky rulings in Dragondice right now.

SAI's which generate normal results function during a dragon attack.

I have to go sit in traffic, so I'll let someone else quote exact rulings that lead to this.
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Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99

[diggity60503]

We were playing last night and the Feralization came up since it was his army and we flipped a coin to decide whether it was one or more armies figuring we'd get a ruling for the next game. The coin flip went the wrong way.

Then he rolled double strike during a dragon attack, but since a lot of the SAIs specifically mention that they can be used during a dragon attack, we figured (and he agreed) that this one couldn't since it didn't mention it.

He ultimately resigned the game after taking quite a beating. I have to work on strategy with him.
_________________
465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212

[DialFforFunky]

Rules within rules within rules...

[cliffwiggs]

I found it: (just a little too late)

[Drachenwurfel]

Please, make the SAI's easyer to play!!!
This is all really Hard to find, and now try to see this to not native English speaker Eyes!!!
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All gone

[cliffwiggs]

[diggity60503]

Terminology is killing me this morning.

I'm stretching toward some fresh understanding here, so be patient.

A Melee Avoidance Roll is a roll looking for results that will prevent melee damage from occurring. So when I take a Melee Action as part of a March, and my opponent rolls in response, he is not specifically looking for saves, he's looking for any roll which helps him "avoid" the Melee damage that my roll might inflict. Thus, while a Save (via a shield type icon on a die) is literally a save; when my Dragonlord rolls Fly, that's what the definition (in this instance) of a melee avoidance is and thus "counts" as a save.

So during a Melee Avoidance roll, what does Double Strike do?

And...because when I am rolling a combination roll against a dragon, anything that would be a Melee during a regular Action counts as a damage to the dragon? Is that right? Do I get the reroll against the dragon too?
_________________
465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212

[DialFforFunky]

Actually, avoidance rolls are rolls to avoid an effect. For instance the SAI Smother calls for a maneuver-avoidance roll, and the Web SAI calls for a melee-avoidance roll. Effect is to be taken in quite a strict sense here, as it refers to "The influence of a spell, special action icon, racial ability, dragon breath, 8th face special location icon or minor terrain upon a target or result" (p.59). Basically, this means a description that makes a die do something out of the ordinary. Currently, there are no Missile avoidance rolls.

Now, suppose a Stranglevine gets Webbed and rolls a Double Strike for its Melee avoidance roll, it would avoid the effect of the Web, as well as get a second roll, which could possibly result in rolling a Wild Growth afterwards. I don't believe any other unit has useful icons it can roll after avoiding the effect, so it is kind of a corner-case scenario in which the reroll is useful after avoiding.


F
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717

[diggity60503]

So Rolling for Saves against a Melee attack and a Melee Avoidance Roll are two different things?
_________________
465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212

[DialFforFunky]

Yup, they are. The damage from an attack (like a melee attack) does not have a description, it just deals damage. This is different for a lot of SAIs and spells, which often don't deal damage in the usual fashion, but have a description as to what happens. In the former case, a save roll is required, whereas the latter case often requires an avoidance roll.
(To confuse you more: some SAIs call for a save roll to be made - Bullseye Convert, for example. These save rolls are actually save avoidance rolls, as they are used to avoid an effect, but they are called save rolls none the less. This is only true for the case of saves though)


F

edit: Thanks for correcting me PiMaster
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717

[piMaster]

[diggity60503]

English in terms of usage and structure was never my strong suit, but let me ask something this way...

A save avoidance roll isn't a roll to avoid saves. It's a roll where you roll a save to avoid whatever effect needs avoiding. If those first two sentences are correct, then if I roll Fly that would count in the avoidance because Fly counts as a Maneuver when you're rolling for Maneuvers or counts as a Save when you're rolling for a save.

Is that right?
_________________
465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212

[piMaster]

Yes that is right.